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Thrustmaster Airbus Throttle Units

Postby ERK » Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:14 pm

I have the latest FlightGear Version 2020.3.13, a Thrustmaster Airbus Sidestick setup as Co-Pilot, and additional two seperate Thrustmaster Airbus twin throttle units. The latter are switched respectively ENG 1&2 and ENG 3&4. All are recognised as such by FGFS. So far so good.
The Flightstick configures not problems. ENg 1&2 throttle is configured and will control the Douglas C47 engine throttles independentally. A four engine plane, like the brilliant Boeing 707 needs ENG 3&4 to be configured, but there is no Throttle 3 or 4 showing in the calibration, despite being able to select "Eng 3&4."
Any attempt to configure simply leads to throotles 1&2 being activated. Yes I can fly the 707 perfectly using the Joystich operating all four throttles simultaneously, but does anyone have coding (I'm not a coder!) for engine throttles 3&4?

Incidentally I have published Kindle books on Flight Simulators under my pen-name Robert Rycroft on Amazon. I include MFS2020, X-Plane 11.55, FSX, which all work with 4-engine throttle control. Surely it is time FGFS includes generic multi-engine control, 2 0r 4 or even 6 throttles.

Can anyone help before I publish my next FS book in May 2022?

Thanks

ERK (Yes, I am an 86yo RAF veteran.)
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Re: Thrustmaster Airbus Throttle Units

Postby tdammers » Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:45 pm

I have almost the same setup, except I only have one of the throttle units, and I have things set up for the Captain side (left-hand stick).

I use a "dynamic" joystick configuration that loads different "overlays" based on the aircraft type I'm flying. The code can be found here: https://github.com/tdammers/flightgear- ... nfig-tca/; it is based on code found here: https://github.com/Rudolf339/fgfs_joyst ... r/twcs.xml.

This approach is extremely flexible, and supports all sorts of mappings for things like thrust reversers, magneto switches, engine starters, autopilot and autothrottle disconnects, toga buttons, etc.
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Re: Thrustmaster Airbus Throttle Units

Postby ERK » Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:06 pm

I appreciate tdammers reply, but that looks too difficult for me. Perhaps someone with an identical dual throttle units, can come up with something simpler. Maybe I'm naive, but when FSFG actually recognises the throttle 3&4 unit, isn't there some way of making axis 0 and axis 1 = throttle 3 and 4? Apologies but you will have to hold my shaky hand on this one.
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Re: Thrustmaster Airbus Throttle Units

Postby SurferTim » Tue Apr 26, 2022 11:08 am

You'll probably need to do a bit of mods to get it to work.
Launch your aircraft, then take a look at the Menu -> Debug -> Browse internal properties
Select input/joysticks. Should show all your joysticks like js, js[1], js[2]. Select each to find the joystick name.
Find the joystick you want to change and you should be able to reassign axis on a specific joystick using --prop.
https://wiki.flightgear.org/Input_devic ... rc_entries

I have not tried this. I just knew about it from previous searches.

Edit: If all works as advertised, you should be able to enter those --prop settings in the launcher's Settings -> Additional settings.
The property you want to access is controls/engines/engine[x]/throttle, where x is the engine number.

My throttle quadrant output is 1 to -1, so I had to use an offset and factor. This should set joystick 2 axis 0 to control engine 2 throttle. Count starts at 0.
Code: Select all
--prop:/input/joysticks/js[2]/axis[0]/binding/command=property-scale
--prop:/input/joysticks/js[2]/axis[0]/binding/property=/controls/engines/engine[2]/throttle
--prop:/input/joysticks/js[2]/axis[0]/binding/offset=1.0
--prop:/input/joysticks/js[2]/axis[0]/binding/factor=0.5


Edit2: Did not work in "Additional Settings".
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Re: Thrustmaster Airbus Throttle Units

Postby ERK » Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:09 pm

I'm currently unsuccessfully trying to find the throttle units bindings. The Thrustmaster Airbus units have a switch on the front which selects either ENG 1&2, or ENG 3&4. I presume these switches are equivalent to buttons, and send a binding to tell which axes are in use? Unfortunately, when switched to ENG 3&4, the analogy is like a car with old 4-speed manual gearbox. Something is broken, the lever is moving into the 3rd or 4th, but it still selects 1st or 2nd. Forgive my 86yo brain. This is patently not happening.
I've looked at all FGFS folders and Thrustmaster and none correspond to my scheme. So where are the bindings.
All my USB devices have the correct pnp drivers, so I presume no actual bindings are stored in the throttle units themselves, so where are they?
Unless someone with identical equipment can give specific answers, I'll have to call it a day and just use the throttle on the joystick. Life is too short, especially mine!!
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Re: Thrustmaster Airbus Throttle Units

Postby V12 » Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:18 pm

You would check Windows control panel - game device and find axes when throttle unit 2 is selected as ENG3&4, throttle unit 1 selected as ENG1&2. You would see 4 axes for 4 levers. If You can see only 2 axex, something is wrong and probably You will need use some device driver for throttle units.
If You will see 4 axis, then both Your units are recognized and problem is in FGFS. But this problem should be solvable with bindings.
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Re: Thrustmaster Airbus Throttle Units

Postby SurferTim » Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:38 pm

It appears FG goes only by the joystick device name. If duplicate names, they both use the same joystick xml module. I got that by "poking the bear with a stick".
Does selecting that 1/2 & 3/4 switch change the device name shown in FG Joystick setup? If not, I'm afraid it is beyond me.

Edit: Here is an excerpt from the ThrustMaster Attack Throttle just as an example. Unless you can change the name of the device, both will use this xml file.
Unless there is another variable besides "name" that would determine which duplicate joystick name is using it.
Code: Select all
<PropertyList>

 <name>ThrustMaster Attack Throttle</name>
 
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Re: Thrustmaster Airbus Throttle Units

Postby ERK » Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:49 pm

Thanks V12. I can confirm the both throttle units (and Sidestick) are recognised properly in Control Panel, work properly, as do all the buttons.

Thanks Surfer Tim. I'm hesitant to change switch ENG 3&4 to ENG 1&2 live whilst playing the FGFS game. As explained in my two Flight Simulator Kindle books, I've successfully consolidated all my Thrustmaster Airbus units to work with all four flight sims and all four combat sims; a mammoth task which I dare not stuff up. I agree, a name change is probably the answer, but I dare not ruin the profiles I have set up. Sometimes one has to settle for much less than perfection. Unless some expert with identical equipment is willing to experiment, I'm not that brave.
I've my third edition of Flight Simulators to publish in May. I've just got the FA18E flying off carriers in the latest MFS2020 update. If it ain't broke don't fix it, is a great maxim. It's 22.47 - my bedtime! Goodnight, thanks for your help.
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Re: Thrustmaster Airbus Throttle Units

Postby ERK » Fri Apr 29, 2022 4:59 pm

After more searching I found where FGFS "hides" the Thrustmaster binding xml files. C:/Users/19erk/App Data/Roaming/flightgear.org/input/joysticks/TCA-Q-Eng-3&4.xml. Similarly for TCA-Q-Eng-1&2.xml. Using the latter as my guide, I tried to edit it to suit Throttles 3&4 and replace the original Eng 3&4 file. Unfortunately I must have missed something, but in any case, as soon as FGFS runs, it simply reloads the original bindings set in joystick configurations. I don't know how to "force" Thrustmaster to accept and retain my bindings, so I've run out of options. Anyone got any more ideas?
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Re: Thrustmaster Airbus Throttle Units

Postby wkitty42 » Sat Apr 30, 2022 12:58 pm

ERK wrote in Fri Apr 29, 2022 4:59 pm:After more searching I found where FGFS "hides" the Thrustmaster binding xml files. C:/Users/19erk/App Data/Roaming/flightgear.org/input/joysticks/TCA-Q-Eng-3&4.xml. Similarly for TCA-Q-Eng-1&2.xml.

these are the proper ones... FG copies them from FGData into this directory so any changes made to their button and axis assignments are saved here in appdata... once you have the xml files working as desired, you should submit them to FG for inclusion in FGData with the others... you don't have to if you don't want to but it would be nice...

ERK wrote in Fri Apr 29, 2022 4:59 pm:Using the latter as my guide, I tried to edit it to suit Throttles 3&4 and replace the original Eng 3&4 file.

ok... i'm guessing the "name" property is different between the two? this is the name that the device identifies itself with... for example the ThrustMaster T.16000M xml file contains this...
Code: Select all
<PropertyList>
  <name type="string">Thrustmaster T.16000M</name>
  <name type="string">T.16000M</name>

those are two strings the joystick can be seen as when one looks at the devices connected to their system...
eg:
Code: Select all
$ sudo lsusb -v | less
Bus 003 Device 005: ID 044f:b10a ThrustMaster, Inc. T.16000M Joystick
Device Descriptor:
  bLength                18
  bDescriptorType         1
  bcdUSB               1.10
  bDeviceClass            0
  bDeviceSubClass         0
  bDeviceProtocol         0
  bMaxPacketSize0        64
  idVendor           0x044f ThrustMaster, Inc.
  idProduct          0xb10a T.16000M Joystick
  bcdDevice            5.00
  iManufacturer           1 Thrustmaster
  iProduct                2 T.16000M
  iSerial                 0
  bNumConfigurations      1
  Configuration Descriptor:
    bLength                 9
    bDescriptorType         2
    wTotalLength       0x0022
    bNumInterfaces          1
    bConfigurationValue     1
    iConfiguration          0
    bmAttributes         0x80
      (Bus Powered)
    MaxPower              100mA
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        0
      bAlternateSetting       0
      bNumEndpoints           1
      bInterfaceClass         3 Human Interface Device
      bInterfaceSubClass      0
      bInterfaceProtocol      0
      iInterface              0
        HID Device Descriptor:
          bLength                 9
          bDescriptorType        33
          bcdHID               1.00
          bCountryCode            0 Not supported
          bNumDescriptors         1
          bDescriptorType        34 Report
          wDescriptorLength     124
         Report Descriptors:
           ** UNAVAILABLE **
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x81  EP 1 IN
        bmAttributes            3
          Transfer Type            Interrupt
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x000a  1x 10 bytes
        bInterval              10
Device Status:     0x0000
  (Bus Powered)

look to the "iProduct" line in the above? not the "idProduct" ;)
if, for example, the period in "T.16000M" was missing in the device iProduct line, it would not match any of the name properties in the xml file... to fix this, we would add another name property without the period... like this...
Code: Select all
<PropertyList>
  <name type="string">Thrustmaster T.16000M</name>
  <name type="string">T.16000M</name>
  <name type="string">T16000M</name>

now the joystick would be recognized by the 3rd of the three names it may be known by instead of one of the two existing ones...

AFAIK, your two devices need different IDs so they can be identified separately... how are your devices being named/identified? you'll probably need to link an image of a cropped screenshot of your device manager window so we can see their info as your OS sees them...

ERK wrote in Fri Apr 29, 2022 4:59 pm:Unfortunately I must have missed something, but in any case, as soon as FGFS runs, it simply reloads the original bindings set in joystick configurations. I don't know how to "force" Thrustmaster to accept and retain my bindings, so I've run out of options. Anyone got any more ideas?

one thing to note is that if you manually edit your personal joystick xml files in appdata, do not use the in-sim joystick configurator to change them... FG will happily eat your manual edits without notice... you can use it to see which file(s) are being loaded but don't change any of the options in the grid...

EDIT:

maybe it is idProduct? i'm not really sure but when i was working on setting up my xbox controller, i had to set the name property to what i see in the idProduct or a different controller/gamepad was used...
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Re: Thrustmaster Airbus Throttle Units

Postby ERK » Sun May 01, 2022 5:56 pm

Thanks everyone. I reiterate I only need help regards to Thrustmaster TA320 Quadrant Airbus Edition with the selector swich set to ENG 3&4, whose xml file as installed, is "TCA-Q-Eng-3&4.xml. The joystick and the other quadrant work perfectly.
In the examples posted by Wkitty42 he shows the "Thrustmaster T.1600M" which I understand. However opening mine shows the following;
<PropertyList>
<name type="string">TCA Q-Eng 3&4</name>

I've tried altering the bindings but I'm not clever enough, so I need help from someone with the identical Thrustmasters Airbus Editions.

However, I've contacted Thrustmaster for technical help. I've asked them if their Thrustmaster S.T.A.R.T. configurer can profile the settings to give four independant throttle control. The GUI version looks easy enough for an 86yo. I await their reply. Meanwhile, has anyone used S.T.A.R.T. for this purpose?
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Re: Thrustmaster Airbus Throttle Units

Postby TheEagle » Sun May 01, 2022 7:31 pm

You need to open your device information window somewhere in the system menu, probably in a "System" or "Settings" submenu. There you should see all your devices, including your throttle quadrants. So, plug them BOTH in your PC, and open that window. In there find your two throttle quadrants, and see if they have some kind of identifier. If that's exactly the same for both, then you're out of luck I'm afraid. If they are different, you just need to make one file for each of them, and each should get the correct bindings assigned.
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Re: Thrustmaster Airbus Throttle Units

Postby ERK » Sun May 01, 2022 10:37 pm

Sorry The Eagle, been there done that. They have different identifiers. I'm thinking this is a very long standing FGFS problem to get four independent throttles working. Two, no problem, four a pain in the derriere. I'll see what Thrustmaster S.T.A.R.T. comes up with before giving up. Somebody much cleverer than me should surely have solved this one years ago.
Bedtime. Thanks to all for trying.
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Re: Thrustmaster Airbus Throttle Units

Postby TheEagle » Sun May 01, 2022 11:34 pm

That's already something ! So, since you have a working bindings file for the 1&2 quadrant, could you post that along with the identifiers from the Device info of the two quadrants ? I think I can set the bindings up for you, with that.
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Re: Thrustmaster Airbus Throttle Units

Postby tdammers » Mon May 02, 2022 10:51 am

ERK wrote in Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:14 pm:I have the latest FlightGear Version 2020.3.13, a Thrustmaster Airbus Sidestick setup as Co-Pilot, and additional two seperate Thrustmaster Airbus twin throttle units. The latter are switched respectively ENG 1&2 and ENG 3&4. All are recognised as such by FGFS. So far so good.
The Flightstick configures not problems. ENg 1&2 throttle is configured and will control the Douglas C47 engine throttles independentally. A four engine plane, like the brilliant Boeing 707 needs ENG 3&4 to be configured, but there is no Throttle 3 or 4 showing in the calibration, despite being able to select "Eng 3&4."
Any attempt to configure simply leads to throotles 1&2 being activated. Yes I can fly the 707 perfectly using the Joystich operating all four throttles simultaneously, but does anyone have coding (I'm not a coder!) for engine throttles 3&4?

Incidentally I have published Kindle books on Flight Simulators under my pen-name Robert Rycroft on Amazon. I include MFS2020, X-Plane 11.55, FSX, which all work with 4-engine throttle control. Surely it is time FGFS includes generic multi-engine control, 2 0r 4 or even 6 throttles.

Can anyone help before I publish my next FS book in May 2022?

Thanks

ERK (Yes, I am an 86yo RAF veteran.)



Forget the in-sim joystick dialog, it's nowhere near powerful enough to do what you want. The best way to configure complex joystick setups is through the XML configuration files. You can find these in `~/.fgfs/Input/Joysticks` on Linux, or the equivalent on other OSes. FG will create new ones for you when it finds new joysticks, one per device, and you can then go and edit them.

With this, it is certainly possible to control more than two engines; it's just that the standard control configuration dialog doesn't cover more than the first two plus "all engines".

However, note that due to the way FG aircraft modelling works, you will most likely not be able to have a single configuration that works for all aircraft types; different aircraft may use different properties for many controls, so you need a configuration that detects the aircraft type and changes bindings accordingly. For example, thrust levers are typically `/controls/engines/throttle[n]` (where `n` is the engine number), but it's not easily possible to detect where on the aircraft each engine is, or if it's even a proper engine (some aircraft types model the APU as an additional engine), or even how many engines there are, so things like "map this lever to the leftmost engine" aren't really possible.

I have built a configuration for my TCA Airbus stick + rudder + 1 throttle unit setup, here: https://github.com/tdammers/flightgear- ... onfig-tca/ - if you're OK with hand-editing XML, it should be fairly straightforward to extend that to two throttle units, and facilitate other aircraft types as well.
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