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Manually configuring a joystick - FlightGear vs FSX vs XP11

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Re: Manually configuring a joystick - FlightGear vs FSX vs X

Postby Robertfm » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:03 pm

It is not a case of not wanting to understand it is a case of being able to understand. Those who code and write books on code do so from the a standpoint of acquired knowledge and not from the stand point of those seeking to understand. Much of the advice on here is in that vein. Just as an example, 'you' may start your advice/comment by talking about the property browser, in 'your' mind assuming everyone knows what the property browser is and where it is. Immediately 'you' may lose someone as happened with me. I had no idea where it was, of course I now do but only because someone explained it fully like, go to Debug on menu tabs and scroll down. I hope you see my point.

I am not knocking the expertise on here merely trying to explain there are people like me who haven't been brought up on programming etc. Back in the day computers had limited functionality, you were taught which buttons to press to get a result. It was not necessary to understand how it got there.
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Re: Manually configuring a joystick - FlightGear vs FSX vs X

Postby Thorsten » Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:05 pm

Just as an example, 'you' may start your advice/comment by talking about the property browser, in 'your' mind assuming everyone knows what the property browser is and where it is.


Well, in actual reality the chances are 50:50 to either use words the other doesn't understand - or to be chided that 'obviously' the other person knows all this 'trivial stuff' and doesn't feel taken seriously.

Can't please everyone...

So no, I don't assume anything about people's prior knowledge - I do assume though that they use the wiki or ther ability to ask questions once they get the right keywords to work with (in the event. I did expect you to find and study the wiki on bindings, which apparently you did not).

Usually you quickly notice who makes an effort to make something of an answer and who does not. It's really not about knowledge but about intentions - I don't mind spending a few hours trying to explain a tricky point to someone who intends to genuine learn and thus be able to help himself and others in the future, but I don't see myself doing trivial stuff for people because they're unwilling to even give it a try.

In other words, the answer 'This f&^^% piece of Nasal code Ive written doesn't do what I want' deserves much more attention than 'I'm not a programmer, I can't do anything' as far as I am concerned.

Give a man a fish and he'll have a full belly for a day - teach him to fish and he'll never go hungry again.
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Re: Manually configuring a joystick - FlightGear vs FSX vs X

Postby Robertfm » Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:49 pm

Fine you've made your judgement about me so as I said stop responding.
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Re: Manually configuring a joystick - FlightGear vs FSX vs X

Postby Thorsten » Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:03 pm

so as I said stop responding.


I believe I answered that last time - this is a public forum and I will say my piece as I see fit.

Hint: Other people are reading dicsussions just as well - information which you opt to disregard may still be useful for them.

P.S.: You actually could have tried. Or could still try. And just see where it leads you. Rather than react angry at the mere suggestion. :D
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Re: Manually configuring a joystick - FlightGear vs FSX vs X

Postby wlbragg » Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:29 pm

@Robertfm Thorsten is actually trying to help you help yourself. If you re-read this thread and try a few of the suggestions and it still doesn't make sense, you can ask a "specific" question and most likely will get a specific answer.

I know it can be difficult to navigate the information being provided without a foundation, but the foundation needed in this case can be acquired by diving in and looking at the information your being pointed to and then asking for clarification if still not understood.
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Re: Manually configuring a joystick - FlightGear vs FSX vs X

Postby Octal450 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:33 am

HI Adrian,
Late reply but hey, I want to comment :mrgreen:
As someone who spent a little time investigating FSX/P3D SDK that's not the reason.

First, most payware addon kill FSX AP and make their own, its as flexible as FG except that its a little harder to implement.
But really the reason it works is because the add-on makers map the default FSX "AP-OFF" button to do the closest things to such an action which works well for MOST things (obviously like Shuttle and such its more complex, I mean a stnadard plane).

For example, on airliners this is the yoke disconnect button where one press if off, second press silence warning, and on ga this generally pushes the A/P button again - you get my point. I've done similar in my planes. Since FG has no default AP-Off binding, I use a nasal binding that works on ALL my planes as the "disconnect" button. Unless you do something crazy like space shuttle that type of approach works (Maybe FG should get a default one)

I found a lot of the time people harsh on commercial sims using only basic built in or freeware aircraft and not realize there is potential to do it just as well as FG does some stuff... look at PMDG for example. They seem to still be the leaders in simulation quality on any desktop class sim...

Kind Regards,
Josh
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Re: Manually configuring a joystick - FlightGear vs FSX vs X

Postby Robertfm » Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:46 am

'I use a nasal binding that works on ALL my planes as the "disconnect" button.' Could you explain how this works for your PA28 Warrior 11, as in how do I install a button to my Flight Stick. Thanks
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Re: Manually configuring a joystick - FlightGear vs FSX vs X

Postby WoodSTokk » Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:54 pm

Robertfm wrote in Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:46 am:'I use a nasal binding that works on ALL my planes as the "disconnect" button.' Could you explain how this works for your PA28 Warrior 11, as in how do I install a button to my Flight Stick. Thanks


On the Warrior II there are two autopilots.
The KAP140 can be disengaged by:
Code: Select all
    <binding>
        <command>property-assign</command>
        <property>/autopilot/kap140/settings/ap-disc</property>
        <value>1</value>
    </binding>


The S-TEX 55X can be disengaged by:
Code: Select all
    <binding>
        <command>property-assign</command>
        <property>/it-stec55x/input/disc</property>
        <value>1</value>
    </binding>
    <binding>
        <command>nasal</command>
        <script>stec55x.button.DISC();</script>
    </binding>
    <mod-up>
        <binding>
            <command>property-assign</command>
            <property>/it-stec55x/input/disc</property>
            <value>0</value>
        </binding>
    </mod-up>
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Re: Manually configuring a joystick - FlightGear vs FSX vs X

Postby Robertfm » Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:05 pm

Does this put a binding into the Calibration Tool so as to be able to allocate a button on the Joystick. Where in the respective xml's do these go.
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Re: Manually configuring a joystick - FlightGear vs FSX vs X

Postby WoodSTokk » Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:10 pm

Thats the actions that should be performed to disengage the APs.
I have never configured a joystick so i dont know where you should put it in.
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Re: Manually configuring a joystick - FlightGear vs FSX vs X

Postby Robertfm » Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:38 pm

Thanks, re-reading Octals post again the bindings he refers to are clearly the actual Yoke button, not a programable button. Thanks anyway.
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Re: Manually configuring a joystick - FlightGear vs FSX vs X

Postby Octal450 » Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:01 pm

Only the:
Code: Select all
    <binding>
        <command>nasal</command>
        <script>stec55x.button.DISC();</script>
    </binding>

Is needed ;) The other is for the animation only.

It would be better to adopt the standard function to cancel both:
libraries.apPanel.apDisc();

Kind Regards,
Josh
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Re: Manually configuring a joystick - FlightGear vs FSX vs X

Postby Robertfm » Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:30 pm

Sorry no idea what that means.
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Re: Manually configuring a joystick - FlightGear vs FSX vs X

Postby Maerchenprinz » Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:17 am

Hi Octal!

TLDR:
Octal450 wrote in Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:33 am:Late reply but hey, I want to comment

Did you really want to comment or did you just try to place a subtle ad for PMDG here? :P

You are probably referring to the posts in which I wrote about the way aircraft systems in FSX and X-Plane often work. I think you wanted to comment on that for a similar reason to the one for which I used some "harsh" words - but from a different perspective!
Commercial sims/addons often purport to have "ultra-realistic behaviour", whilst "some kind of complex but no way like the real thing" would be correct... It's that claim, not the actual behaviour that I criticise - may they call it "complex" or "immersive", I'd be fine. For someone who has spent hours and days and years looking at weirdo circuit diagrams and literature and technical drawings and stuff to make a "real" aircraft simulation (I'm pretty sure you know what I'm talking about! :) ), it's a recurring, and sometimes annoying topic: Some people (and I don't blame these people) tend to port their believe in that "realistic behaviour"-claim of one simulator into another one. Like "Simulator A claims to be realistic, so simulator B cannot be correct when it behaves different to A". And you have put endless work into B and know better...

I wrote these posts in this context where I just meant to give a hint to not look at any simulator when trying to understand the real thing, nothing else - not to bash FSX or X-Plane or their addons.
Well, without context, they may sound generalizing, so you probably wanted to comment because of that. So, to erase a subtext that was never intended: Yes, there are good commercial flight-sim products though they have to follow the rules of the market, and yes, there are good free flight-sim products though they have no funds of the market.
END TLDR

Back to topic:
A common binding to a nasal "frontend" to represent at least one AP button is generally a good idea. The generic FG AP has one already, I think I do remember (it's late here, so please be kind if I'm wrong!). I take care of three FG-aircraft which all have some kind of a different philosophy when it comes to handling their AP. Having one sim-button bound to one RL-button would just be a drop in the bucket in these complicated cases and would still need custom adaption anyway.

Keep going!

Ciao,

Adrian
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