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AI arrivals have disappeared

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AI arrivals have disappeared

Postby rleibner » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:34 pm

Hi,
To not be as dramatic as the subject suggests, let me make the context explicit.
I've modified my SUMU airport (was very outdated) using WED, exporting SUMU.dat and generating the new SUMU.btg.gz
Then I allowed FGFS to automatically build the SUMU.groundnet.xml

Hovering the UFO, I can see now all the AI departures taxing along the taxiways, facing the rwy and taking-off. Fine!
But I do not see any arrival at all !! (although they are scheduled into the Traffic files) :shock:

Into fgfs.log, the warnings concerning AI are:
    * more than 500 lines reading "Traffic Manager Warning: found duplicate tailnumber..."
    * 50 lines about AI-Traffic: schedule aircraft missing performance data

May be the problem is the groundnet? I watch it with my groundnet editor and seems to be OK.
Any idea?
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Re: AI arrivals have disappeared

Postby wkitty42 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:50 pm

rleibner wrote in Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:34 pm:Then I allowed FGFS to automatically build the SUMU.groundnet.xml

what does this mean? AFAIK, FG doesn't build groundnets... you have to specifically build them...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: AI arrivals have disappeared

Postby rleibner » Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:04 pm

wkitty42 wrote in Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:50 pm: AFAIK, FG doesn't build groundnets... you have to specifically build them...
Once I've replaced SUMU.btg.gz with my new version and launched FGFS (with --enable-terrasync) ... a $FGFS-HOME/.fgfs/TerraSync/Airports/S/U/M/SUMU.groundnet.xml appears magically.
I was surprised too.
That is the net shown in the posted screenshot.

FWIW, my WED design includes "Taxi Routes" and I used Airport Web Generator for the *.dat --> *.btg operation.
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Re: AI arrivals have disappeared

Postby wlbragg » Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:41 pm

That makes sense as Terragear would download the original groundnet if there was one available.

I don't know if missing performance data would kill AI or not? But if the aircraft that your adding to the routes are missing that data are they then also your own custom AI aircraft? I haven't been following AI progress closely, are there newly added AI routes that include aircraft that have no performance data input into fgdata/AI/Aircraft/performancedb.xml?
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Re: AI arrivals have disappeared

Postby wkitty42 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:35 pm

rleibner wrote in Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:04 pm:Once I've replaced SUMU.btg.gz with my new version and launched FGFS (with --enable-terrasync) ... a $FGFS-HOME/.fgfs/TerraSync/Airports/S/U/M/SUMU.groundnet.xml appears magically.

that's not majik... that's terrasync downloading the groundnet file as it exists on the terrasync servers... turn terrasync off and try again...

also, i do hope that you are putting your SUMU.btg file in your own scenery override directory... that's also where your own groundnet file will go... if you are putting them in your terrasync directory, FG is overwriting them with the ones on the terrasync servers...
Last edited by wkitty42 on Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: AI arrivals have disappeared

Postby wkitty42 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:37 pm

wlbragg wrote in Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:41 pm:I don't know if missing performance data would kill AI or not?

it does not... there is a defaults that is used... the other thing is to use the proper identifier for the craft in the database... i forget what it is ATM but i know they're taken form wikipedia and are official IDs...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: AI arrivals have disappeared

Postby BecOzIcan » Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:19 pm

wlbragg wrote in Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:41 pm:That makes sense as Terragear would download the original groundnet if there was one available.


I had a look at the Terrasync groundnet for SUMU. Looks like one of the old 'autoconverted' ones and it's quite bad

Image



Try putting this one in your own scenery folder (not terrasync) . Threshold is optional :
http://www.mediafire.com/file/cph4zt65ps1sy35/SUMU.groundnet.xml/file
http://www.mediafire.com/file/77v3gjwjt4g0eac/SUMU.threshold.xml/file


Image

Looking at our current traffic files you should get traffic at SUMU from American, Air France, GOL, Iberia, LAN and TAM. You should get different Airlines/Aircraft depending on the times of the day and day of week in your starting panel.
AAL , LAN & TAM showing up in both my older 2.12 version and the latest release (2018.3) this Monday.

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Re: AI arrivals have disappeared

Postby rleibner » Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:17 pm

BecOzIcan wrote in Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:19 pm:Try putting this one in your own scenery folder (not terrasync) .
Thanks for those files. They do correspond to the real apt layout.
I've put them both into my ~/myScenery/Airports/S/U/M folder.
Also I've verified that they are unique in my HDD and SUMU.btg resides on my ~/myScenery/Terrain/w060s40/w057s35 folder.
And yet, launching FG I see this on the Location tab:
Image
The old 10/28 rwy appears (in spite of it do not exist in SUMU.threshold.xml) and no parking point is shown !!
Note that the command line parms includes:
    --config=/home/rodolfo/.fgfs/preferences.xml
    --disable-terrasync
    --fg-scenery=/home/rodolfo/myScenery
    --enable-ai-models
    --enable-ai-traffic

BecOzIcan wrote in Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:19 pm:Looking at our current traffic files you should get traffic at SUMU from American, Air France, GOL, Iberia, LAN and TAM. You should get different Airlines/Aircraft depending on the times of the day and day of week in your starting panel.

Yes, I knew that doing a grep -r "SUMU" on the Traffic folder.
ITRW traffic here is much more populated than that (see p.ex. arrivals). In order to test the AI traffic, I modified those files by adding a few fake flights. May be that is the origin of my problems :oops:
Would you give me a link to download the good ones?

On the other hand, I have a problem with the terrain elevation:
Image
Some undulations of the terrain are invading the leftmost gate and its groundnet. Does this have any relation to AI traffic behavior?
Rodolfo
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Re: AI arrivals have disappeared

Postby BecOzIcan » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:28 am

rleibner wrote in Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:17 pm:And yet, launching FG I see this on the Location tab: The old 10/28 rwy appears (in spite of it do not exist in SUMU.threshold.xml) and no parking point is shown !!

Your Terrain and SUMU.BTZ files are merely a cover of paint over ground. they have no functional impact on anything EXCEPT for Elevation as they define the ground level (on which aircrafts land and roll)

Layout showed on startup screen and runway / navigation data is taken from Global APT.DAT (not your SUMU.BTG) this is why the layout shown is the Terrasync one.
You can bypass the global APT dat with a custom one (generated from your new SUMU WED Layout) : See viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30734&p=297392&hilit=navdata%2Fapt#p297392

No need to turn off terrasync. for as long as your launcher has a path defined to your custom sceneries these will take precedent over Terrasync Data

Groundnet/Starting position on Launcher : The gates I created for the groundnet should show up on the launcher start screen (They are all named G-xx as as per the connecting taxiway), independently of any change in scenery terrain or btg so it looks like FG does not detect the custom groundnet. Most likely you are not pointing your launcher to the right location (even if looks ok from the paths provided below)

rleibner wrote in Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:17 pm:Note that the command line parms includes:
--config=/home/rodolfo/.fgfs/preferences.xml
--disable-terrasync
--fg-scenery=/home/rodolfo/myScenery
--enable-ai-models
--enable-ai-traffic

Are you using windows ? The path you're showing seems to indicate your scenery lives in your User Profile (C: Drive) as it has the same pathway than your preferences.
Always a good idea to have FG installs and Custom Sceneries in another partition than C: because of read/write restrictions. As far as I know Win10 saves your preferences to C:\User\MYNAME\AppData\Roaming\Flightgear

rleibner wrote in Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:17 pm:In order to test the AI traffic, I modified those files by adding a few fake flights. May be that is the origin of my problems :oops:
Would you give me a link to download the good ones?

Shouldn't you take a copy before modifying a system file ?
There are different ways to get these files from the main repository but in your case I would recommend a reinstall (which will not erase your scenery work for as long as it does not live in a subfolder of FG's main program)

rleibner wrote in Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:17 pm:On the other hand, I have a problem with the terrain elevation: Some undulations of the terrain are invading the leftmost gate and its groundnet. Does this have any relation to AI traffic behavior?


No relationship to Groundnet / AI at all (aircraft will always show above the ground, on the 'hill') BUT this signals an issue with your WED scenery: Either it has not boundary either it is misplaced. Terragear always flatten the area within the Boundary and sets it at Airport elevation. See viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22556&hilit=tunnel

Bottom line, we have no "System incoming AI issue as far as I can see", only misinstall/misuse.
Please raise your sceneries issues (if the above does not address them) in the Sceneries forum.

Cheers
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Re: AI arrivals have disappeared

Postby wkitty42 » Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:44 pm

BecOzIcan wrote in Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:28 am:
rleibner wrote in Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:17 pm:Note that the command line parms includes:
--config=/home/rodolfo/.fgfs/preferences.xml
--disable-terrasync
--fg-scenery=/home/rodolfo/myScenery
--enable-ai-models
--enable-ai-traffic

Are you using windows ? The path you're showing seems to indicate your scenery lives in your User Profile (C: Drive) as it has the same pathway than your preferences.

that's linux... the giveaway is ".fgfs" in the "--config" line ;)
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: AI arrivals have disappeared

Postby wkitty42 » Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:36 pm

BecOzIcan wrote in Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:28 am:Layout showed on startup screen and runway / navigation data is taken from Global APT.DAT (not your SUMU.BTG) this is why the layout shown is the Terrasync one.

this may be able to be overridden with a corrected .dat override for SUMU placed as (eg) myscenery/NavData/apt/SUMU.dat... on reload, FG will rebuild the navdat cache and use the new data... i think that the built-in launcher reads the data from the database so it should also use the new data instead of trying to parse the raw apt.dat file...

if someone can make a corrected SUMU.dat available, i can test it here...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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wkitty42
 
Posts: 5305
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:46 pm
Location: central NC, USA
Callsign: wk42
Version: git next
OS: Kubuntu 14.04.5


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