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Re: EDDF ground net

Postby gooneybird » Tue May 15, 2018 10:49 am

BecOzIcan wrote in Mon May 14, 2018 9:58 am:
wkitty42 wrote in Mon May 14, 2018 7:42 am:it looks like the entire %fgdata%/AI/Airports directory tree can be completely removed if everything is switching to ground nets...


Not sure where that came from. Wouldn't you loose your runway preferences (RWYUSE) ? You could try it on your local. Only thing I can confirm I tested successfully is that parking.xml is no longer required for as long as you have a groundnet.

Cheers
Ian


I'm sure these parking.xml's were converted to ****.groundnet.xml's when the groundnet method was introduced, mind you we've had so many bad groundnets added since that maybe some of the old parkings are a better option despite the old data within the file.
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Re: EDDF ground net

Postby wkitty42 » Tue May 15, 2018 3:06 pm

BecOzIcan wrote in Mon May 14, 2018 9:58 am:
wkitty42 wrote in Mon May 14, 2018 7:42 am:it looks like the entire %fgdata%/AI/Airports directory tree can be completely removed if everything is switching to ground nets...


Not sure where that came from.

where what came from? my question as to whether ground net files are replacing parking files?
TBH, i was surprised to find the parking files had what looked to be the same format as the ground net files... if the EDDF/parking.xml file is the old good parking and only needs a few fixups, that could be used and moved to E/D/D/EDDF.groundnet.xml, couldn't it? if that is the one that was feared lost?

BecOzIcan wrote in Mon May 14, 2018 9:58 am:Wouldn't you loose your runway preferences (RWYUSE) ?

it doesn't seem to be much of a loss... there's only a few rwyuse.xml files in %fgdata%... the following are those in my moved-out-of-the-way AI/Airports directory... everything else is just parking.xml files...

Code: Select all
myuser@mymachine:~/flightgear-dev/fgdata-ng$ find . -type f -name rwyuse.*
./AI/-Airports-/OMDB/rwyuse.xml
./AI/-Airports-/EHAM/rwyuse.xml
./AI/-Airports-/LEPA/rwyuse.xml
./AI/-Airports-/KLAX/rwyuse.xml
./AI/-Airports-/KSFO/rwyuse.xml
./AI/-Airports-/KOAK/rwyuse.xml


there are no rwyuse.xml files in terrasync at all...

BecOzIcan wrote in Mon May 14, 2018 9:58 am:You could try it on your local. Only thing I can confirm I tested successfully is that parking.xml is no longer required for as long as you have a groundnet.

right... the implied question, once i discovered parking.xml was the same as groundnet.xml, have we converted the parking.xml files over to groundnet.xmls and adjusted them as needed so the old ones can be removed... i don't know where rwyuse.xml is derived from but it could/should also be renamed to ICAO.rwyuse.xml and moved to terrasync, too, shouldn't it?

in any case, at this time, i'm running FG without a %fgdata%/AI/Airports directory... only terrasync and my scenery overrides directory are providing anything Airport related and both of those are in terrasync directory tree format...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: EDDF ground net

Postby wkitty42 » Tue May 15, 2018 3:08 pm

BecOzIcan wrote in Tue May 15, 2018 12:56 am:
wkitty42 wrote in Mon May 14, 2018 7:42 am:i wouldn't even know which message to use the green tick of...


Tick on Top RHS of your first post for this thread. Showed only to the person who created the thread AFAICS

i thought the message that was the solved would be the one to be ticked... i'm surprised it offers me the chance to tick my own starting post... but sure, just so it'll clear your list... i always use "New Posts" and never "Unsolved Posts" ;)
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: EDDF ground net

Postby wkitty42 » Tue May 15, 2018 3:23 pm

gooneybird wrote in Tue May 15, 2018 10:49 am:I'm sure these parking.xml's were converted to ****.groundnet.xml's when the groundnet method was introduced, mind you we've had so many bad groundnets added since that maybe some of the old parkings are a better option despite the old data within the file.

i was asking because of the mention of losing the older better working file... i don't know if it was this parking file and the ground file in terrasync overrides it making it appear that the old one was overwritten or lost OR if there was a working ground net file (derived from this old parking file?) in terrasync that got overwritten by the current bad one... since the current ground net file is a mess and not all that good, maybe using the older parking one and converting it would be better? if so and if it doesn't need a lot of work ("lot of work" is defined as "as much work as making a new ground net file"), then it could be fixed and updated in terrasync so everyone would get it...

i have WED here and AFAIK it is operational... i don't know that i can do the old taxi editor thing, though... i'm just not sure what i need to do to get WED to show me an airport and existing ground net so i can work on the ground net and parking... maybe i should make another topic for that?

i'm interested in fixing up KRDU and nearby KTTA and possibly a few others so as to get some GA traffic in the area... it would be cool to also be able to set up some AI medical helicopters in the area as they fly from the hospital in Pinehurst to Duke hospital in Chapel Hill fairly often... figuring out how to maybe do nasal generated random flights to feed to the traffic manager is something else i've thought about... that would produce random AI flights that are not on any set schedule... a perfect fit for airports that support GA craft...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: EDDF ground net

Postby gooneybird » Tue May 15, 2018 7:07 pm

wkitty42 wrote in Tue May 15, 2018 3:06 pm:
if the EDDF/parking.xml file is the old good parking and only needs a few fixups, that could be used and moved to E/D/D/EDDF.groundnet.xml, couldn't it? if that is the one that was feared lost?


It is and surprisingly it is still fairly accurate, it would be a good base to start from when you start updating it as there is a lot more parking (especially the south side) and a new runway been added since that groundnet was created.

i have WED here and AFAIK it is operational... i don't know that i can do the old taxi editor thing, though... i'm just not sure what i need to do to get WED to show me an airport and existing ground net so i can work on the ground net and parking... maybe i should make another topic for that?


Can't be done, you can create a new groundnet in WED but you can't edit an existing one with it, for that you must use Taxidraw. Which ever way you do it you will have to use Taxidraw at some point in the process.
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Re: EDDF ground net

Postby BecOzIcan » Tue May 15, 2018 11:56 pm

gooneybird wrote in Tue May 15, 2018 10:49 am:I'm sure these parking.xml's were converted to ****.groundnet.xml's when the groundnet method was introduced


Ok, that's the piece I was missing, never realized this is what had happened at the time but it makes a lot if sense. One benefit of this old location (lost now I guess) is that, given it if fitted under FGData, I can commit to it. Maybe an avenue to explore in terms of making groundnets available to the masses.

Cheers
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Re: EDDF ground net

Postby wkitty42 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:21 pm

BecOzIcan wrote in Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:41 pm:
wkitty42 wrote in Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:46 am:my understanding of Taxidraw and WED is that TD is not supported or at least doesn't support the new format version...


To be precise, Taxidraw cannot interpret APT.DAT elements in any other format than 850

[...]

SO I you run Taxidraw right now and decide to create a groundnet from scratch, it's easy enough to simply'
1. Add manually the runways in taxidraw (by using the values found in in WED for the Centre LAT / LON, heading and length of each runway
2. Add each route node (Centreline interesection) as a new Taxidraw node, using the lat / lon for the equivalent point in WED .

NOW i finally understand what you were saying back in april... especially since i now also have the taxidraw code... maybe i'll see how badly i can break it by attempting to add in the ability to decode apt.dat versions newer than 850... that's so ancient, it has hair whiter than mine :lol:
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: EDDF ground net

Postby BecOzIcan » Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:12 am

You made my day !

FYI the one blocking issue I found with Taxidraw (win version) is projections handling:
1. Trying to switch projection will systematically abort the program
2. More important it doesn't seem TD can handle airports placed at the crossing two projection tiles (OJAI Amman or PANC Anchorage) ; See below OJAI example

Notice the double grid (orange), like two reference systems are at play.
Also See how where I try to place a node from the terminal to the runway (red circle area) it ends up off screen (like using an alternative Lat/Lon system

I am not a developer so I could never resolve the source issue but if bringing TD into the 21st century is within the realm of your skills, you would make a lot of people -starting with me- very happy.

Cheers
Ian


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Re: EDDF ground net

Postby wkitty42 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:57 am

i hear ya, man! the problem is that i'm not a c/c++ coder... i can read it enough to do some things but i have also entertained the idea of just completely rewriting it in a language i know and understand... the problem there is that i've never done any GUI coding... not anything more than just a very simple database type of thing (aka address book)... we'll see what happens... especially since i have at least three taxidraw code repos that all compile... i just cannot tell which has the newest code... in any case, i'm really looking at it but that plant may not make it through the winter...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Posts: 4550
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:46 pm
Location: central NC, USA
Callsign: wk42
Version: git next
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