Space Shuttle Tutorial: From Ground to Orbit

[Thorsten]

Convert to jpg in the first place, png is almost 10 times as large.

Under Linux I'd use image magic which has a terrific commandline tool for batch jobs - under Windows I have no idea.

[GinGin]

Ah nice thanks.
I changed in my screenshot software to Jpeg, cool.

I found that for convertion, quite handy https://www.iloveimg.com/convert-to-jpg

[GinGin]

I am improving with wiki, tutorials are nicely done, thanks.
I should start to edit next week

[GinGin]

I come up with an idea for the Wiki.
I am a bit reluctant to modify all the missions part of Thorsten.
I find it still very usefull for a first approach and beginning with the Shuttle.

Instead, do you find it would be a good idea to create below a category like "Advanced tutorial" or something like that where I will put my stuffs.
I mean, use of real checklist and what I described and will describe for next mission phase might be a bit too much hardcore for a first approach with the Shuttle, no?

What do you think?
Adding a category below Mission phases like 9 )Advanced tutorials or Gingin Adventures or whatever

[Thorsten]

I would not use this page for tutorials. I was happy with the model where this replaces my tutorials (note that they probably don't work any more because there's been development added, which also added mandatory steps and obsoleted others - so there's no reason to preserve them except historical interest).

[bugman]

I would suggest using wiki subpages for organisation. For cross-referencing, see viewtopic.php?p=318865#p318864.

Regards,
Edward

[GinGin]

Would it be possible to create a sub part in media forum (like the challenges) for more tutorials orientated post?

[Hooray]

I kinda agree with bugman - however, if you truly prefer using the forum, I think you should just proceed using the forum, and once we have a few topics, we could set up such a sub-forum. Even though it may make sense to better establish how these tutorials should be structured.

Personally, I am not convinced that the forum is such a good place due to its static nature: posts are rarely edited/maintained by their authors - I think Thorsten and flug are the only ones to regularly update their original post in a topic - apart from that, I think Thorsten already pointed out that not even some of the wiki tutorials are correct anymore.

Thus, I think it would be best to use the most flexible format - i.e. to ensure that things will/can be updated 5+ years from now.

[GinGin]

Ok no problem.
I am using both, now that I figured out how to edit wiki

I will post here and edit in the Wiki

[Hooray]

Maybe it would be a great addition to the dev version of the Space Shuttle to expand the lists to include these, just like the C172P, so that the in-sim checklists are close to those from NASA?

Actually the design is intentional - you need a chance to learn the Shuttle, and that isn't accomplished by going though pages and pages of switches (which you have to find first) - out of which many are not really necessary for a nominal mission.

So the in-sim checklists are to make sure you have the essentials covered to safely operate the vehicle, the Flight Manual is supposed to give you some background how it ties together and why you do certain things and as you advance you can gradually transit to NASA material.

Once you go off-nominal, checklists only are quickly of limited value because you need the situational awareness as well - you need to understand what the problem is, what response to expect etc. (and @bugman - I don't think you really have a mental picture of just how much material there is...)

I think Stuart's tutorial system is using a neat little idea here that's been highlighted in several FlightGear reviews: cockpit-specific views that can show certain instruments/screens directly with an added marker - given that Stuart developed both features (tutorials + checklists), it should be possible to integrate the two to reuse the concept of showing a marker and an instrument-specific view for a given checklist/stage.

http://wiki.flightgear.org/Tutorials#Marker

[Thorsten]

There are, I believe, a few Shuttle mission simulators around where you can work a checklist aka 'now push the button where the arrow points to'.

Personally I do not believe you'll learn anything meaningful about operating a spacecraft from such a setup, I believe it's a waste of my time to code it and that my efforts are better spent on the FG Shuttle Flight Manual - because that gives you the context of what you're doing.

If you like Stuart's tutorial system with views and arrows in this craft, you'll have to do it yourself, I'm not interested.

[Hooray]

I think it was bugman who made the suggestion, but even if nobody is volunteering their time to implement this, it could probably be done procedurally as long as the corresponding checklists contain encoded information about the views/dials needed - as in setting a view an encoding the dials relevant for the checklist stage.

Doing all this manually, does indeed sound like a ton of work - but if there is any kind of naming scheme/convention being used already (?), it might be possible to procedurally create /some/ of the bindings and come up with the corresponding markers - as in having a foreach loop that traverses a vector with relevant cockpit knobs and views to be set for each stage/step in the checklist.

I can't comment on the eductional value of any of this, but it is worth noting that Stuart's tutorial/marker approach was indeed highlighted in several independent reviews - then again, I do realize that the shuttle's complexity exceeds everything we have in the aircraft department. And if realism is the ultimate goal, it probably isn't that much too ask for people to familiarize themselves with the procedures involved.

Personally, I think that this may be one of those things that may at least help lower the barrier to entry - I've found some of the tutorial/marker scenes rather self-explanatory, as in locating a certain screen/control panel and seeing the corresponding switches flipped.

But I don't think that this is something that should be separately implemented - from a coding standpoint, a checklist could contain encoded information for each step detailing the cockpit view to show, and the buttons to show a marker for - other than that, it'd certainly represent months of work to do this separately, while not necessarily staying in sync with the underlying checklist system.