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Re: Su-15 Screenshots

Postby vitos » Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:48 am

Thorsten wrote in Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:44 am:Yes, that's what I said. I wasn't saying that the US election is particularly accurate, you were.


And my calculations are accurately partly. These are not exact, but exact enough to see that there is not too many "astronauts" between FG users. BTW, I do know it not by one way, but by many, as I double important things - as You could remember, I made clear personal survey when my "Vostok" was sole spacecraft at FG - it was for some years, so enough to count.

And as of my actions - I did not made some other as "Buran" after that - as initially I made virtual rocked not for virtual space, but real consolidation. I made military model with working missiles, and proposed, at GPL basis, protocol allowing to ground others by missiles at mp. As such sims are quite popular. But that was rejected same way "Vostok" was rejected then - "we don't need it". With Your participation BTW.

And year after that I saw some kids bombing each other out with intense text messages at mp instead, without missiles visibility, anyway. I asked them how their thing works, do know.

Also, I remember quite well that my "MiG-15" was not included in base package when it was sole model at FG with realistic breakage system and pdf manual.

Also, Your mistype of "Russian" word was intentional, as "o" and "a" are placed at different sides of keyboard,

So I made my conclusions, and these are final. As of You personally - You will be at real space never. Not at that life, not in any other else. You was not made for that.
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Re: Su-15 Screenshots

Postby Thorsten » Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:21 am

*sigh*

You know, we can continue that forever, or have a positive future. As for your claims and 'history'

As such sims are quite popular. But that was rejected same way "Vostok" was rejected then - "we don't need it". With Your participation BTW.


To my knowledge Vostok was put onto the repository, so I don't know what exactly was rejected. My participation in this alleged 'rejection' was to develop Earthview (at that time solely for use with Vostok) so that users can enjoy visuals from space, and to push to get bugs fixed which prevented proper high altitude flight. I'm not sure in what world that equals a rejection.

The only thing that was rejected was your request that all core developers abandon their own projects and work on your vision of how spaceflight should be continued.

Also, I remember quite well that my "MiG-15" was not included in base package when it was sole model at FG with realistic breakage system and pdf manual.


You're certainly wrong about the manual (the c-172p had one way back), and we may argue what 'realistic' breakage means - FG certainly had a damage system and some aircraft (notably the F-14b) have checked for limit violations and simulated breakage as long as I can remember - certainly years before you developed the MiG-15bis.

The MiG-15 was a good aircraft, there were other good candidates for inclusion in the base package, there was a discussion, ultimately it wasn't chosen (just like many other excellent aircraft).

On the other hand, Vostok happens to be one of the handful of aircraft that got a full review article on the FG site (I guess we managed to present perhaps 2% of all existing craft there), so you have to try really hard to construe a rejection of your work by the community from that.

And my calculations are accurately partly.


I dunno - there's two users known to me (who never even bothers to check MP!) who have used the Shuttle over MP, if I multiply that with the ratio of FG users to MP users estimated from download statistics and corrected for users who get FG via their Linux distributions (the factor of around 1000), I get above ~2000 Shuttle users. So I wonder by what measure that backs your claim that less people are using it than in reality...

Which is fundamentally a silly calculation and not accurate at all - which is the point I'm making all along.
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Re: Su-15 Screenshots

Postby vitos » Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:23 am

Here will not be any positive figure, as it can't be made by changing other, but by common change only, and You can't change. Which I know not by words, but by actions.
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Re: Su-15 Screenshots

Postby Thorsten » Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:10 am

Forgive me, but the real issue seems to be that you consistently rate your own ideas and your own work as much superior to everyone else's, and that this perception isn't shared by others.

Your craft on FGAddon are very nice pieces of work - but that doesn't mean others don't do equally good (or even better) work, it doesn't mean you invented things like manuals, damage simulation and such, and it doesn't mean that the fact that others don't pick your ideas over their own is meant as a personal insult to you.

You can't change


I frankly see no real reason to, given that it's not me who continues to post complaints about how unhappy he is with how FG works. :D
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Re: Su-15 Screenshots

Postby vitos » Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:18 am

Yes, I do, as I made something first free times at that simulator. And made it not for own sake, but for common. As of people who preferred to treat my actions other way - some people reacts at alien as at enemy instinctively, and You can't do anything than let them live and die bounded to surface of Earth planet. They may look smart enough for space mastering, but as they calls it "conquering" - they don't.
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Re: Su-15 Screenshots

Postby Thorsten » Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:24 am

Yes, I do, as I made something first free times at that simulator. And made it not for own sake, but for common.


So do hundreds of FG contributors, including myself. That doesn't mean everyone else does what I think best either, it doesn't mean everyone has to agree with me all the time, or that my work has to be included in the base package.
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Re: Su-15 Screenshots

Postby vitos » Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:26 am

Thorsten wrote in Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:24 am:So do hundreds of FG contributors, including myself. That doesn't mean everyone else does what I think best either, it doesn't mean everyone has to agree with me all the time, or that my work has to be included in the base package.


Of course not. Especially after You called Russian "Russion" intentionally without any provoking from others, declaring by that what You cant live and work at international really environment even.

You know, Korolev called Americans "Amerikany" - but he has reasons, for example quickly droved out A-2. If it really was friendship back then Germans technology remains was shared instead equally. Soviets did not got any intact missile, but made their initial copy out of junk leftovers on themselves, and then made their own path. R-7 had nothing common with A-2, even painting scheme was different. It was Americans who made their space progress by conquered things, hands, and minds.

While me did not something as that - You are just prove that here is not real friendship at now too, and it's not my problem at now after all. I do not see any solution here, and do think that it is not existed.
Last edited by vitos on Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Su-15 Screenshots

Postby Thorsten » Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:46 am

Especially after You called Russian "Russion" intentionally without any provoking from others, declaring by that what You cant live and work at international really environment even.


Sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about, and I doubt I ever claimed anything like this. Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else?
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Re: Su-15 Screenshots

Postby vitos » Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:47 am

Thorsten wrote in Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:33 am:Observe - you've published your Su-15 here with a Russion translation, mocking people to try to get it into the air.


Don't You have some swastikas at home, kid?
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Re: Su-15 Screenshots

Postby Thorsten » Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:11 pm

Ah - sorry about the (completely unintentional) typo.
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Re: Su-15 Screenshots

Postby vitos » Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:04 pm

Thorsten wrote in Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:11 pm:Ah - sorry about the (completely unintentional) typo.


As I said, "a" and "o" are at different sides of keyboard. It was unconscious maybe, but not unintentional. Your true attitude not in that "sorry", but in that mistype, so can't.

After all, You continuously chose to try to make something better than me instead of trying to do something better with me - not with what's left after, but me myself. That's what matters.

As of me - I did not made some addon to "Orbiter" since it is not Open-Source. And was right - for example, all previous made side addons, I heard, stopped to work with latest version. But looking at things going here, I would say there is not real difference between these choices.
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Re: Su-15 Screenshots

Postby Thorsten » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:51 pm

Right... I guess we need to look at typos these day to find our whether people are fit for an international environment, and the fact that I've spent half of my life in countries different from where I was born really doesn't figure at all.


After all, You continuously chose to try to make something better than me instead of trying to do something better with me


I guess I've said it a few times - you're welcome to contribute to any space-related activity, be it Shuttle, ISS or other. I'm just not accepting you as the leader who tells me how things are done - and since that's what you absolutely wanted in the past, you didn't find co-workers.

Since I do have a track record of contributing to your project but not the other way round, you're not really in a position to make the above claim, are you? Also, you alternate between complaints that nobody maintains your models and that others mess with your models. Could you just make up your mind which one it should be? Because you can't have the cake and eat it.

But I guess since the conversation is not productive, I'll leave you the last word here.
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Re: Su-15 Screenshots

Postby vitos » Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:07 pm

I am psychologist, so do know who is who, can differ it from who that one trying to seem to others. Moreover, I am social psychologist, so can differ free society from society trying to look free. With proofs solid for anyone thinkable - triple reliability. Maybe I pressed You to wrong solutions a bit myself, but don't think so. Choice was Yours, and at real relations You can fail deeply only once. As with real plane or spacecraft You are crashing once only.

You know, at times of Soyuz-Apollo, or Apollo-Soyuz, as at two countries sequence of names was different, project, even new type of docking device was invented, so called androgynous docking system, to make docking equal, looking as handshake instead of, You know. But since here is not possibility of mp docking at FG existed, and even Gemini 7-6A flight was not modelled at proper time, it looks as here will not be an "Apollo".

You chose to make model of hugy flying iron instead, to show everyone that Yours is bigger cheaper way and without any possibility of equality - what would await "Buran" here I do know by attitude to "Su-15", "MiG-15", and "Vostok-1", which I can see clearly by comparison of number of messages at forum and tone of these, number of mp users, etc, with models of similar type and quality. So to fit something and someone here is not my problem, I am not from those rainbow guys who are so selfish that gets to direct, You know, comparison.

Also, I will not make "Soyuz", as here is not possible to dock someone else really at FG. I could make core things for realistic mp docking alone, but someone who meant to make whole space OS simulator alone would went here never at all; and experience with "Vostok" says what such additions would not be used as way to equality and community, but would be used literally instead. "Vostok" wasn't led to common work, both at Russian FG group and here, so I do know for sure what "Soyuz" couldn't.

Plus, even much easier "Su-15" is not flown by others mostly. In fact, not one of you could led realistic Soviet spacecraft model to point real spacecraft crashed finally, so it's useless in means of population increasing. While to me myself it's not interesting, as I am interested not in crash, but ways to avoid it. These was and is not presented here and there. With Soyuz-1 flight all is known. There was no chance really, so it's no use to reproduce that in means of investigation too.

After all, I will not do anything more than what was done already with you. I got my first point to feel what something is wrong, second one to see where line goes instead of it should, and third to be sure that it going that way. I do not need more and do not care of ones who needs or saying so, as they are needing not my care and treatment, but special one.

If I was something as You/you, then I would praise Your nasal fake Earth thing or Shuttle model with fake nasal ISS to moment someone else made really complex things as new Earth engine or Moon with Apollo for mp crew, and then You could say that I betrayed You and Your plans. I suppose You will say it anyway, but not about me. As I cant do something as that - I do have clear view of how things are going to be. It's easy, since I am living at reality where these was made many times before. And using others as rocket stages or engine fuel is not included, since I do know, not theoretically only, but by historical facts, that You can't go way far that way.

It's you who rejected to shake my hand and proposed Your pingas instead. More than once. If that project not goes direction I meant, to really international community somehow profitable to participators, so they can work not worrying about their future everywhere - not one valuable to me is interested in that, me too, as it is not part of future, and will get away when current will become past.

It takes some humanity to believe that alien can be friend. You did't had it - pity, but nothing special. Also, to invest in someone planning to make drugs and sell these is a mean business, but in some situations could worth it, while investment in some addict is complete junk, and I can't see way by which simulation here could become reality for most of participants. More important, they don't look as they want it to become reality, as more realistic models attracts them less than simplified ones. Go . . .
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Re: Su-15 Screenshots

Postby vitos » Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:37 pm

Little update of Su.

Image

1) 3D model was deeply reconsidered, by roughing most of smooth edges and some not important details, to ~0.75..0.5 of initial size. For most of users differences at view would be not noticeable, while fps rise relatively. It's not that fast still, but faster.

2) Partially by price of that gunsight was added. With real sizes it fits well into Su ideology - don't helps, as anything goes by radar, but blocks a view. Anyway, it was there, so.

3) Radar, by book, can see some lower targets now. It depends on how far ground is behind target, if that is more than twice further than radar far range, reflection is omitted. Thus, on lower altitudes difference is not much, but at higher ones Su can go 3km higher than target and see it as no problem.

4) More realistic distortion at horizon with autocorrection at horizontal flight, as it really was.

5) Seat stripes puller now controls blackout also. So pull it at high-g turns to see normally, then release to let view shift.

6) A bit better algorithms of automatic landing and autoaiming flight control of radar.

7) All jsb pids was changed to simple time tick based summators. It seems that pids are not optimised and change at fps is not much, but notable.

8) Propulsion system was shifted to nasal. Initially, I made model taking in mind idea that jsb could become part of some other flight sim. Then model would be ported there fast - anything which could work on jsb worked on that. But it looks that jsb will not live separately much, while nasal is jumpy, but considerably less fps expensive.

9) Better interception algorithm, and missiles are changed to R-98, with 23km range and better predicting aiming. Technically, it could intercept 3Mach 25km altitude target now. At least, it works at 18km 2Mach one, in 15 deg angle at 900km initial distance. It works honestly at 2Mach target at most of cases and it works on 3Mach with proper approach at ufo tests. So it could.
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Re: Su-15 Screenshots

Postby vitos » Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:27 pm

Little update: interception at hop added for targets as SR-71 and XB-70, up to 3Mach and 25km altitude.

Works at same mode as standard interception, but pilot should not use final following by own radar, but turn upper radar knob to keep locked target at sight, while missile going to it - that keeps hop profile correct.

Interception gotta be made from airport more or less at path of target, with initial distance ~1000km. To make target visible via mp at such distance, set

/sim/multiplay/visibility-range-nm

to 1000 or something by / key menu.

Then set infoline to target prior takeoff, then at altitude around 1km switch course system to automatic interception mode, set radar to lock target, and follow standard interception procedure without final target following by own radar of plane.

Mistakes made such interception impossible previously was in using interpolation formulas instead of data tables at missile aerodynamics code. Difference was around 10%, but drag at altitude had +10%, while lift had -10%. Or something as that. I though it was realistic behaviour, but tests with original Datcom tables - BTW, model has own way to use JSB style tables at Nasal code - proved missile could make it.

Dunno, if such interception had occur really, most probably not. But plane could do that at proper hands, seems to be.

Image
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