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Major need to update the nav/vor/fixes in flightgear

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Major need to update the nav/vor/fixes in flightgear

Postby Doorknob747 » Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:43 am

The current fixes and other naviads are quite old compared to skyvector. In fact, some waypoints have been moved to other side of the planet even.

Due to a glitch that I have confirmed is not caused by my current installation of flightgear (meaning its a bug with the program), GPX or pre-exported flight gear route plans imports do import but the flightgear would crash in a few minutes with Windows saying "flightgear has stopped responding", giving the options of debugging with visual studio or closing the program. Thus all waypoints that currently are not in flight gear or at the wrong location, must be entered manually by coordinates. In aircrafts like A320 where import of GPX is not possible (unless one wants flightgear to crash in a few minutes), waypoint names have to be entered manually CDU. In the event that the waypoint name does not exist or is at the wrong location in FlightGear, there is no way to enter the waypoint coordinates into the CDU of an aircraft like the A320.

Take these route plans for example that require numerous manual input in following routes.

VABB to WSSS (The coordinate waypoints are the ones that were not available in flightgear, and thus had to be entered manually)
Code: Select all
<?xml version="1.0"?>

<PropertyList>
  <version type="int">2</version>
  <flight-rules type="string">V</flight-rules>
  <flight-type type="string">X</flight-type>
  <estimated-duration-minutes type="int">0</estimated-duration-minutes>
  <departure>
    <airport type="string">VABB</airport>
    <runway type="string">27</runway>
  </departure>
  <destination>
    <airport type="string">WSSS</airport>
    <runway type="string">02C</runway>
  </destination>
  <cruise>
    <altitude-ft type="int">35000</altitude-ft>
    <knots type="int">320</knots>
  </cruise>
  <route>
    <wp>
      <type type="string">runway</type>
      <departure type="bool">true</departure>
      <ident type="string">27</ident>
      <icao type="string">VABB</icao>
    </wp>
    <wp n="1">
      <type type="string">basic</type>
      <alt-restrict type="string">at</alt-restrict>
      <altitude-ft type="double">20000</altitude-ft>
      <ident type="string">E073N017</ident>
      <lon type="double">73.21816667</lon>
      <lat type="double">17.7225</lat>
    </wp>
    <wp n="2">
      <type type="string">navaid</type>
      <alt-restrict type="string">at</alt-restrict>
      <altitude-ft type="double">20000</altitude-ft>
      <ident type="string">MABTA</ident>
      <lon type="double">73.362667</lon>
      <lat type="double">17.141333</lat>
    </wp>
    <wp n="3">
      <type type="string">navaid</type>
      <alt-restrict type="string">at</alt-restrict>
      <altitude-ft type="double">22500</altitude-ft>
      <ident type="string">EPKOS</ident>
      <lon type="double">74.11956</lon>
      <lat type="double">16.8866</lat>
    </wp>
    <wp n="4">
      <type type="string">basic</type>
      <alt-restrict type="string">at</alt-restrict>
      <altitude-ft type="double">25000</altitude-ft>
      <ident type="string">E074N016</ident>
      <lon type="double">74.63733333</lon>
      <lat type="double">16.49333333</lat>
    </wp>
    <wp n="5">
      <type type="string">basic</type>
      <alt-restrict type="string">at</alt-restrict>
      <altitude-ft type="double">27500</altitude-ft>
      <ident type="string">E076N015</ident>
      <lon type="double">76.35933333</lon>
      <lat type="double">15.166</lat>
    </wp>
    <wp n="6">
      <type type="string">navaid</type>
      <alt-restrict type="string">at</alt-restrict>
      <altitude-ft type="double">27500</altitude-ft>
      <ident type="string">OPAMO</ident>
      <lon type="double">77.090528</lon>
      <lat type="double">14.592944</lat>
    </wp>
    <wp n="7">
      <type type="string">basic</type>
      <alt-restrict type="string">at</alt-restrict>
      <altitude-ft type="double">27500</altitude-ft>
      <ident type="string">E079N012</ident>
      <lon type="double">79.35833333</lon>
      <lat type="double">12.97366667</lat>
    </wp>
    <wp n="8">
      <type type="string">navaid</type>
      <alt-restrict type="string">at</alt-restrict>
      <altitude-ft type="double">27500</altitude-ft>
      <ident type="string">MMV</ident>
      <lon type="double">80.170694</lon>
      <lat type="double">12.993361</lat>
    </wp>
    <wp n="9">
      <type type="string">navaid</type>
      <alt-restrict type="string">at</alt-restrict>
      <altitude-ft type="double">35000</altitude-ft>
      <ident type="string">ELSAR</ident>
      <lon type="double">87.351667</lon>
      <lat type="double">9.768333</lat>
    </wp>
    <wp n="10">
      <type type="string">navaid</type>
      <alt-restrict type="string">at</alt-restrict>
      <altitude-ft type="double">35000</altitude-ft>
      <ident type="string">DUBTA</ident>
      <lon type="double">91.676667</lon>
      <lat type="double">7.823333</lat>
    </wp>
    <wp n="11">
      <type type="string">navaid</type>
      <alt-restrict type="string">at</alt-restrict>
      <altitude-ft type="double">35000</altitude-ft>
      <ident type="string">NOPEK</ident>
      <lon type="double">94.416667</lon>
      <lat type="double">6.603889</lat>
    </wp>
    <wp n="12">
      <type type="string">navaid</type>
      <alt-restrict type="string">at</alt-restrict>
      <altitude-ft type="double">35000</altitude-ft>
      <ident type="string">IGEBO</ident>
      <lon type="double">95.080833</lon>
      <lat type="double">6.235833</lat>
    </wp>
    <wp n="13">
      <type type="string">navaid</type>
      <alt-restrict type="string">at</alt-restrict>
      <altitude-ft type="double">35000</altitude-ft>
      <ident type="string">ANSAX</ident>
      <lon type="double">95.508056</lon>
      <lat type="double">6</lat>
    </wp>
    <wp n="14">
      <type type="string">navaid</type>
      <alt-restrict type="string">at</alt-restrict>
      <altitude-ft type="double">23000</altitude-ft>
      <ident type="string">PUGER</ident>
      <lon type="double">100.291667</lon>
      <lat type="double">3.4</lat>
    </wp>
    <wp n="15">
      <type type="string">basic</type>
      <alt-restrict type="string">at</alt-restrict>
      <altitude-ft type="double">18500</altitude-ft>
      <ident type="string">E100N003</ident>
      <lon type="double">100.9781667</lon>
      <lat type="double">3.079666667</lat>
    </wp>
    <wp n="16">
      <type type="string">navaid</type>
      <alt-restrict type="string">at</alt-restrict>
      <altitude-ft type="double">17500</altitude-ft>
      <ident type="string">INTOT</ident>
      <lon type="double">101.135278</lon>
      <lat type="double">3.006389</lat>
    </wp>
    <wp n="17">
      <type type="string">basic</type>
      <alt-restrict type="string">at</alt-restrict>
      <altitude-ft type="double">16200</altitude-ft>
      <ident type="string">E101N002</ident>
      <lon type="double">101.323</lon>
      <lat type="double">2.918333333</lat>
    </wp>
    <wp n="18">
      <type type="string">basic</type>
      <alt-restrict type="string">at</alt-restrict>
      <altitude-ft type="double">12400</altitude-ft>
      <ident type="string">E101N002</ident>
      <lon type="double">101.829</lon>
      <lat type="double">2.537</lat>
    </wp>
    <wp n="19">
      <type type="string">basic</type>
      <alt-restrict type="string">at</alt-restrict>
      <altitude-ft type="double">7300</altitude-ft>
      <ident type="string">E102N002</ident>
      <lon type="double">102.5118333</lon>
      <lat type="double">2.022666667</lat>
    </wp>
    <wp n="20">
      <type type="string">navaid</type>
      <alt-restrict type="string">at</alt-restrict>
      <altitude-ft type="double">7300</altitude-ft>
      <ident type="string">TOPOR</ident>
      <lon type="double">102.891667</lon>
      <lat type="double">1.736667</lat>
    </wp>
    <wp n="21">
      <type type="string">navaid</type>
      <alt-restrict type="string">at</alt-restrict>
      <altitude-ft type="double">7300</altitude-ft>
      <ident type="string">ARAMA</ident>
      <lon type="double">103.12</lon>
      <lat type="double">1.615</lat>
    </wp>
    <wp n="22">
      <type type="string">navaid</type>
      <alt-restrict type="string">at</alt-restrict>
      <altitude-ft type="double">4200</altitude-ft>
      <ident type="string">BOBAG</ident>
      <lon type="double">103.498333</lon>
      <lat type="double">1.041667</lat>
    </wp>
    <wp n="23">
      <type type="string">navaid</type>
      <alt-restrict type="string">at</alt-restrict>
      <altitude-ft type="double">1900</altitude-ft>
      <ident type="string">SAMKO</ident>
      <lon type="double">103.881944</lon>
      <lat type="double">1.091667</lat>
    </wp>
    <wp n="24">
      <type type="string">runway</type>
      <approach type="bool">true</approach>
      <ident type="string">02C</ident>
      <icao type="string">WSSS</icao>
    </wp>
  </route>
</PropertyList>




LROP to EGLL (NOT ALL WAYPOINTS IN SKYVECTOR ARE AVAILABLE IN FLIGHTGEAR)
Code: Select all
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<gpx xmlns="http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" creator="SkyVector" version="1.1" xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1 http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1/gpx.xsd">
  <rte>
    <name>LROP-EGLL</name>
    <rtept lat="44.571111" lon="26.085000">
      <name>LROP</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="44.623889" lon="25.745278">
      <name>RASAR</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="44.992778" lon="25.330278">
      <name>SOKRU</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="45.079444" lon="24.902500">
      <name>ENIMA</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="45.813889" lon="23.398056">
      <name>ULMIN</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="45.960278" lon="23.088056">
      <name>NEPOT</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="46.315278" lon="21.996389">
      <name>NOPTI</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="46.555556" lon="21.457222">
      <name>ARCAZ</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="46.926111" lon="20.459167">
      <name>BINKU</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="47.214444" lon="19.527500">
      <name>DODAR</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="47.340833" lon="19.129444">
      <name>BALUX</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="47.410000" lon="18.902500">
      <name>EMBUT</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="47.539722" lon="18.490000">
      <name>TORNO</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="47.559167" lon="18.430278">
      <name>BODZA</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="47.787222" lon="17.662500">
      <name>VAMOG</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="47.899722" lon="17.133056">
      <name>GASNA</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="48.031667" lon="16.776667">
      <name>RASTO</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="48.294167" lon="15.408611">
      <name>MEDIX</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="48.566553" lon="14.541344">
      <name>VENEN</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="48.689167" lon="13.982778">
      <name>PINQI</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="48.762778" lon="13.709167">
      <name>DEXIT</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="48.880000" lon="13.242222">
      <name>LALIN</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="49.335833" lon="12.541389">
      <name>RUDNO</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="49.566389" lon="11.546667">
      <name>MOOCE</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="49.768764" lon="11.224603">
      <name>ANELA</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="49.880000" lon="11.045833">
      <name>BAMAS</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="50.075192" lon="10.728808">
      <name>SULUS</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="50.073333" lon="10.242778">
      <name>KOMIB</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="50.072778" lon="10.098611">
      <name>RASPU</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="50.070000" lon="9.783056">
      <name>OSBIT</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="50.066944" lon="9.486389">
      <name>LOHRE</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="50.341111" lon="8.859722">
      <name>ESAMA</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="50.558611" lon="7.431389">
      <name>UMUPU</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="50.560556" lon="7.174722">
      <name>ADMUM</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="50.555833" lon="6.955000">
      <name>DEVRU</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="50.549500" lon="6.690833">
      <name>GEBSO</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="50.602222" lon="6.251944">
      <name>ASDAK</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="50.649167" lon="5.848889">
      <name>BATTY</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="50.682500" lon="5.665556">
      <name>TERLA</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="50.806389" lon="5.045278">
      <name>SOGRI</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="50.902333" lon="4.538083">
      <name>BUB</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="51.095556" lon="4.035000">
      <name>JAZFI</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="51.236111" lon="3.657500">
      <name>DENUT</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="51.269444" lon="3.406667">
      <name>LUMEN</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="51.352500" lon="2.750278">
      <name>BULAM</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="51.411944" lon="2.262500">
      <name>DIBLI</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="51.443889" lon="2.000000">
      <name>RAPIX</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="51.458611" lon="1.874167">
      <name>SUNUP</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="51.488889" lon="1.611944">
      <name>TEBRA</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="51.542222" lon="1.137222">
      <name>KOPUL</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="51.540278" lon="0.976944">
      <name>IDITU</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="51.531111" lon="0.388611">
      <name>IPKUS</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="51.459167" lon="0.118889">
      <name>UMBUR</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="51.477500" lon="-0.461389">
      <name>EGLL</name>
      <overfly>false</overfly>
    </rtept>

  </rte>
</gpx>

Doorknob747
 
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2021 5:27 am

Re: Major need to update the nav/vor/fixes in flightgear

Postby merspieler » Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:20 am

We're all very well aware that that is needed... issue is to find a suiting source with the right license.
If you can find us a GPL2 compatible source, then I guess there's very little in the way of getting that in.

For now you've got 2 options if you wanna fly without manually entering waypoint coordinates (WARNING, both require you to give away your data to an US profiteering glutton):
1) On the A320: Use the simbrief loading function... create the flightplan in simbrief and then just get the flightplan from within the MCDU
2) Get a navigraph subscription. There are instructions on the wiki on how to convert those files (doesn't work for all of them, awy.dat can't be converted without extra scripts... which are not available on the wiki)
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merspieler
 
Posts: 2243
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:43 am
Location: Wish to be in YBCS
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Re: Major need to update the nav/vor/fixes in flightgear

Postby Doorknob747 » Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:23 am

merspieler wrote in Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:20 am:We're all very well aware that that is needed... issue is to find a suiting source with the right license.
If you can find us a GPL2 compatible source, then I guess there's very little in the way of getting that in.
For now you've got 2 options if you wanna fly without manually entering waypoint coordinates (WARNING, both require you to give away your data to an US profiteering glutton):
1) On the A320: Use the simbrief loading function... create the flightplan in simbrief and then just get the flightplan from within the MCDU
2) Get a navigraph subscription. There are instructions on the wiki on how to convert those files (doesn't work for all of them, awy.dat can't be converted without extra scripts... which are not available on the wiki)

Questions:
What are some GPL2 compatible sources?
Does a website made from user contributed data is considered GPL2?
Is public domain compatible with GPL2?
Is data on https://www.icao.int compatible with GPL2?
Although I did not find something about fixes, and am not sure if this is considered public domain, it is from the FAA website, I found a way to get NOTAm data for the US region.
https://tfr.faa.gov/tfr2/list.html

I did find this for US airspace from the FAA website, it lists a bunch of charts, however I do not know how to extract the data from the chart images.

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/digital_products/ifr/
https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/digital_products/vfr/
I also found this.... although it seems it might be limited to the US airspace, according to the FAA website they are claiming they will soon be releasing API's for developers to easily integrate FAA data.

Developers Portal

Developers can easily integrate FAA dataset into software applications thanks to the FAA's Application Programming Interfaces (APIs). Get started by creating an API key to access and use available web services. Developer Portal coming soon!
Source - https://www.faa.gov/data/


Although the following is mostly user supplied and thus not 100% accurate, I think it is GPL2 compatible.
https://ourairports.com/data/ <-- CONTAINS routinely updating CSVs of navaids although it does not contain as many fixes as skyvector :(
our airports does say the following
Many web sites, smartphone apps, and other services rely on OurAirport's data, which is all in the Public Domain (no permission required).
source - https://ourairports.com/about.html

back to the FAA stuff : I found some other interesting things.
DOF (Daily Obstacle Files) files:
https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/digital_products/DailyDOF/

I MIGHT HAVE HIT A HALF JACKPOT AT FAA WEBSITE AGAIN
https://nfdc.faa.gov/nfdcApps/services/ajv5/fixes.jsp
Only problem is..... it is done by state, then one letter then one fix at a time, just hitting search without typing anything....great info if parsing html....but then again we can't do a brute search of everything.
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Re: Major need to update the nav/vor/fixes in flightgear

Postby Doorknob747 » Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:07 am

JACKPOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is from FAA so maybe Public Domain?
Just need to somehow parse html code now :(
NRS Fix Data (scroll down to bullet point 4 where the table starts) = https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/locid_html/chap1_section_6_paragraph_W.html
VOR, ILS, TACAN, DME, NDB, SDF regular fixes/waypoints (NAS fixes you name it) only problem is that every first letter has its own table :( , the other letters are one the same page :) = https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/locid_html/chap1_section_6_paragraph_P.html

Three letter identifier = https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/locid_html/chap1_section_6_paragraph_B.html

According to this https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/locid_html/ it says it's effective December 2021.
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Re: Major need to update the nav/vor/fixes in flightgear

Postby Doorknob747 » Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:17 am

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Re: Major need to update the nav/vor/fixes in flightgear

Postby erik » Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:54 pm

David was one of the first core developers for FlightGear.

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Re: Major need to update the nav/vor/fixes in flightgear

Postby merspieler » Thu Feb 24, 2022 2:51 pm

You're asking the right questions... now you need to answer them... that's the hard part...
For license compatibility see: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html
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Re: Major need to update the nav/vor/fixes in flightgear

Postby Doorknob747 » Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:21 pm

merspieler wrote in Thu Feb 24, 2022 2:51 pm:You're asking the right questions... now you need to answer them... that's the hard part...
For license compatibility see: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html


I need to answer them????

Isn't public domain compatible with all GPL licenses, thus the reason why "public domain" is considered free for use, or am I getting something wrong?

Are you trying to tell me that the sources I listed in the posts #4 and #5 are not compatible with GPL2? Are we not allowed to parse data? Are we required a specific file format?
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Re: Major need to update the nav/vor/fixes in flightgear

Postby merspieler » Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:54 pm

Doorknob747 wrote in Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:21 pm:Isn't public domain compatible with all GPL licenses, thus the reason why "public domain" is considered free for use, or am I getting something wrong?


This clearly shows you didn't even take a look at the link... public domain is described there: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-li ... blicDomain

Doorknob747 wrote in Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:21 pm:Are you trying to tell me that the sources I listed in the posts #4 and #5 are not compatible with GPL2?


That's what's need to be checked... for that I've posted the reference to the GPL chart so you don't need to ask but just can look it up your self.

Doorknob747 wrote in Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:21 pm:Are we not allowed to parse data?


Only if the parsed data allows parsing, processing and redistributing the result.

Doorknob747 wrote in Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:21 pm: Are we required a specific file format?


As long as you can write a script, that can convert it into the format FG requires, you can use literally any format.
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Re: Major need to update the nav/vor/fixes in flightgear

Postby Doorknob747 » Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:38 am

merspieler wrote in Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:54 pm:
Doorknob747 wrote in Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:21 pm:Isn't public domain compatible with all GPL licenses, thus the reason why "public domain" is considered free for use, or am I getting something wrong?


This clearly shows you didn't even take a look at the link... public domain is described there: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-li ... blicDomain

Doorknob747 wrote in Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:21 pm:Are you trying to tell me that the sources I listed in the posts #4 and #5 are not compatible with GPL2?


That's what's need to be checked... for that I've posted the reference to the GPL chart so you don't need to ask but just can look it up your self.

Doorknob747 wrote in Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:21 pm:Are we not allowed to parse data?


Only if the parsed data allows parsing, processing and redistributing the result.

Doorknob747 wrote in Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:21 pm: Are we required a specific file format?


As long as you can write a script, that can convert it into the format FG requires, you can use literally any format.


I did take a look before, it was just that I was not sure as too what was the restriction that you were trying to imply. However, with the point that you said where the parsed data allows parsing, now I can understand. I was under the interpretation that Public Domain means anyone can do anything.

As for what I can tell you, here is what I found.

The ourairports is compatible with GPL2 for the following reasons, based of the information here (https://ourairports.com/data/) and here (https://ourairports.com/about.html).

In the data page it states :
Downloads
Picture of a spreadsheet

For more intense work, we have a CSV-formatted data dump of all our airports, countries, and top-level administrative subdivisions (regions), which we update every night. You can download these files and open them with almost any spreadsheet program or import them into your own database. You can even use them to set up your own, competing airport web site if you'd like! We'd love you to give us credit, like we give credit to our sources, but you're not required to.
Terms of use

All data is released to the Public Domain, and comes with no guarantee of accuracy or fitness for use.



The biggest giveaway that OurAirports can work for GPL2 is that on it's GitHub page, it's licence is displayed as a license of type of "The Unlicense". Which means we can definetly use the stuff on the GitHub page. https://github.com/davidmegginson/ourairports-data/blob/main/LICENSE

Thus it seems we are able to use the data that we parse from the files on their github page here :
https://github.com/davidmegginson/ourairports-data
Just a heads up before FlightGear developers can use the data there, it is a must to take into consideration the dataset formats as displayed at the OurAirports explanation page about it, https://ourairports.com/help/data-dictionary.html and the data legend as described under a section on the help page at OurAirports, https://ourairports.com/help/#legend



In regards to the more acurate for US airspace, FAA page that I had linked, it is a bit hard to find exactly what we can do. That will take some time.


As for now.... FlightGear devs can use the data in OurAirports :D

Update:

Good news and bad news

Good news, the navaids at "ourairports" are useful for updating and adding any new navigational aids to Flightgear. :)

Bad news is that "ourairports" does not have fixes/way-points. :(

Update 2 (In regards to the FAA thing):
Looked into the FAA website and found the following on this page. : https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/faq/#q1h

Can the FAA's digital products be used in private industry software products?
What are the copyright/licensing regulations for these products?

All digital products published by the FAA are in the public domain and are not copyright protected. Therefore, a written release or credit is not required to incorporate them into your own digital products. The FAA cannot endorse or recommend one private industry product over another. Also, since all of our products are date sensitive we recommend that you seek legal advice prior to marketing your own products. To protect the integrity of our aeronautical products, all notations and symbology in the original products are to be included in any tailored versions.

Bassed of that
✅ (Public domain) as stated in the quote, "... All digital products published by the FAA are in the public domain and are not copyright protected. ..."
✅ (No permission or requirement to state source, when incorporating the data) as stated in the quote, "... a written release or credit is not required to incorporate them into your own digital products..."
❌ (There is a requirement on how data is to be shown if it is used) as stated in the source , "... To protect the integrity of our aeronautical products, all notations and symbology in the original products are to be included in any tailored versions. ..."

I have a feeling that it means FlightGear devs can't use the FAA data, if I am not wrong. :(

But at least "ourairports" can be used to keep the Navaid info up to date in FlightGear.

Update 3:
Maybe not all is lost .... what if FlightGear devs were to super impose the FAA charts to the Americas region on the FlightGear map. As in if FlightGear devs were to make the FAA charts a background of the Americas region in the FlightGear map, and make waypoints clickable?????? Then the 3rd point might not be a violation to our use of GPL2, after all in that case FlightGear will be showing all the notations and symbology in the FlightGear map (and it would be an actual aeronautical map), and at the same time we fixed the way-point issues). The only problem then would be... it might end up looking similar to skyvector then.... wondering if that is a copyright violation then by similarity.
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Re: Major need to update the nav/vor/fixes in flightgear

Postby merspieler » Fri Feb 25, 2022 9:23 am

Doorknob747 wrote in Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:38 am: FlightGear devs can use the data in OurAirports


So can you... all that's needed is a script that parses the csv and writes it in a way that FG understands.
A suitable python script should be fairly simple to write... if you want to tackle this and need help, I'm happy to guide you.

Doorknob747 wrote in Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:38 am:❌ (There is a requirement on how data is to be shown if it is used) as stated in the source , "... To protect the integrity of our aeronautical products, all notations and symbology in the original products are to be included in any tailored versions. ..."


This sounds more to be tailored towards visual charts while the data that FG uses is just a list of fixes, navaids etc... so I'm not sure about that one.
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Re: Major need to update the nav/vor/fixes in flightgear

Postby Doorknob747 » Fri Feb 25, 2022 10:02 am

merspieler wrote in Fri Feb 25, 2022 9:23 am:
Doorknob747 wrote in Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:38 am: FlightGear devs can use the data in OurAirports


So can you... all that's needed is a script that parses the csv and writes it in a way that FG understands.
A suitable python script should be fairly simple to write... if you want to tackle this and need help, I'm happy to guide you.

Doorknob747 wrote in Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:38 am:❌ (There is a requirement on how data is to be shown if it is used) as stated in the source , "... To protect the integrity of our aeronautical products, all notations and symbology in the original products are to be included in any tailored versions. ..."


This sounds more to be tailored towards visual charts while the data that FG uses is just a list of fixes, navaids etc... so I'm not sure about that one.


Instead of python can I use Java? I only know Java and ISO C++. Still have to learn python.
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Re: Major need to update the nav/vor/fixes in flightgear

Postby merspieler » Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:16 pm

Sure... use what ever you are comfortable with... especially if you're already familiar with a language.

I've just mentioned python cause I've written something very similar in python already.
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Re: Major need to update the nav/vor/fixes in flightgear

Postby MariuszXC » Fri Feb 25, 2022 4:15 pm

But let me add, that if you are already familiar with OO programming concepts (as you obviously are) then I highly recommend to spend an evening or two learning Python. Chances are you will love the power and flexibility it offers.
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Re: Major need to update the nav/vor/fixes in flightgear

Postby Hooray » Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:30 pm

A while ago, there was the idea to support custom navdb "overlays" analogous to other fgdata overlays - in conjunction with a date-based scheme, all sorts of alternate sources could be used.
I am not sure if the overlay mechanism for navaids ever materialized, but the underlying mechanism is SQLIte based, so would seem pretty straightforward to adapt if needed.

If in doubt, check back with the archives to learn more about the original overlay discussion.
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