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FG 2020.3 View Changes

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FG 2020.3 View Changes

Postby mhab » Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:13 am

So (without following the developer list) I upgraded from FG 2019.1 to FG 2020.3.4
In the release announcement I read about improvements to viewing ...
Is there a place where these "improvements" are explained in more detail ?

"Chase View without Yaw"
My biggest issue is an absolutely weird behaviour of "Chase View without Yaw".
The movements which happen in this view made me sea sick and I have no clue about what was the idea to change this in the way it is preset now.
I figured out, how to get back useful behaviour and changed it for me in defaults.xml

"Tower View AGL"
All that does is zoom to the aircraft. Don't understand, why a new view is needed to do that. I tried an optional Autozoom functionality for the Tower view some years ago.
It can be switched off and all is compatible. And it would be useful to limit the zoom, as behaviour can be weird if you e.g. fly by the tower in this view

"Model View"
As view behaviour and usage is not really documented, at least I was not able to find anything in recent years, I never understood what "Model View" is good for.
Now its replaced by the "Tower View AGL" and in view.nas its still existing and hacked around ...

In general in the wiki I lack an introduction to terminology, and read about "eye views" recently, whatever an "eye view" shall be ...

Not really amused about how things are evolving here ...

Mike-DE
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Re: FG 2020.3 View Changes

Postby Isaak » Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:35 pm

I strongly suggest you read up on the mailing list, this topic has been discussed very thoroughly when changes to the view code were implemented.
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Re: FG 2020.3 View Changes

Postby mhab » Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:33 pm

I'm not talking about the C++ code ...
I talk about the configuration of views and Nasal ...
That's where my world ends ...

If there is no more support for this kind of user, then thank you and good bye
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Re: FG 2020.3 View Changes

Postby Hooray » Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:52 pm

As part of the ongoing CompositeViewer effort, the view manager/system still is in the process of being updated - if in doubt, it would make sense to file a proper ticket, i.e. if you you have found a genuine bug.
Keep in mind, for FlightGear to evolve, some "breakage" is inevitable - but that also means that end-users need to use the proper channels to report any issues that they may run into. Most core devs will don't use the forum, which is why filing a proper bug report would make sense (that is, if you don't want to discuss your issue on the mailing list).

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Thanks & all the best,
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Re: FG 2020.3 View Changes

Postby cgdae » Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:34 pm

mhab wrote in Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:13 am:So (without following the developer list) I upgraded from FG 2019.1 to FG 2020.3.4
In the release announcement I read about improvements to viewing ...
Is there a place where these "improvements" are explained in more detail ?


I'm probably responsible for most of the view changes that you're talking about.

The only public documentation is in the changelogs - the changes are conceptually pretty simple so i didn't think it was worth trying to go into more detail.

But if that's not the case, we can try to clarify things here, and then perhaps add to the Wiki if necessary.

If you're interested in the details, then there was quite a lot of discussion on the flightgear-devel mailing list.

mhab wrote in Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:13 am:
"Chase View without Yaw"
My biggest issue is an absolutely weird behaviour of "Chase View without Yaw".
The movements which happen in this view made me sea sick and I have no clue about what was the idea to change this in the way it is preset now.
I figured out, how to get back useful behaviour and changed it for me in defaults.xml


What you're talking about here seems to be the use of damping in this view, which predates my changes.

As far as i know, my changes did not change "Chase View without Yaw".

Could you post what you changed in defaults.xml to get back to your desired behaviour?

mhab wrote in Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:13 am:
"Tower View AGL"
All that does is zoom to the aircraft. Don't understand, why a new view is needed to do that. I tried an optional Autozoom functionality for the Tower view some years ago.
It can be switched off and all is compatible. And it would be useful to limit the zoom, as behaviour can be weird if you e.g. fly by the tower in this view


It seems like you've missed the description of Tower View AGL in the 'Graphics' section of the changelog (ttp://wiki.flightgear.org/Changelog_2020.3):

"A new Tower AGL view has been added. This is similar to Tower View, except that it keeps both the aircraft and the ground immediately below the aircraft in view, zooming and panning smoothly as the aircraft moves. Good for viewing landings."

mhab wrote in Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:13 am:"Model View"
As view behaviour and usage is not really documented, at least I was not able to find anything in recent years, I never understood what "Model View" is good for.
Now its replaced by the "Tower View AGL" and in view.nas its still existing and hacked around ...


Model view used to be the only way of viewing multiplayer aircraft. With the new view system, any view can look at multiplayer aircraft (see the 'Multiplayer' section in the changelog http://wiki.flightgear.org/Changelog_2020.3), so it became redundant.

mhab wrote in Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:13 am:In general in the wiki I lack an introduction to terminology, and read about "eye views" recently, whatever an "eye view" shall be ...

Not really amused about how things are evolving here ...

Mike-DE


That description is necessarily complicated, unfortunately, because the view system is doing a rather complex job, so configuration is tricky.

mhab wrote in Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:33 pm:I'm not talking about the C++ code ...
I talk about the configuration of views and Nasal ...
That's where my world ends ...

If there is no more support for this kind of user, then thank you and good bye


If things are not as you want them to be, please get involved yourself to help improve the situation. That is how open-source works.

You don't have to be a C++ programmer to improve the Wiki or suggest changes to the XML or Nasal code.

For example it might be possible to control how much damping Chase View uses, and make this a user setting.

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Re: FG 2020.3 View Changes

Postby legoboyvdlp » Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:59 pm

mhab wrote in Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:33 pm:If there is no more support for this kind of user, then thank you and good bye


If you're that annoyed by these minor changes, which were well-publicized, and have been in the repository for months, well...
Didn't you realize that you had the opportunity months ago to have your views expressed? Didn't you think that perhaps people might appreciate feedback then, rather than months later?

Thank you for neglecting all the other hard work and major improvements that have been done. :cry:
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Re: FG 2020.3 View Changes

Postby Richard » Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:49 pm

mhab wrote in Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:33 pm:I'm not talking about the C++ code ...
I talk about the configuration of views and Nasal ...
That's where my world ends ...

If there is no more support for this kind of user, then thank you and good bye


The devlist isn't just about C++ development; it is about all development for FG and is still the place that all developers of aircraft should read (at a very minimum) to follow what is being proposed or being implemented.

There really isn't a valid reason that an aircraft developer should decide not to read the devlist.
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Re: FG 2020.3 View Changes

Postby Hooray » Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:57 pm

Also, the devel list a much more reliable way to make, and discuss, your own proposals - even compared to the issue tracker.
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
Thanks & all the best,
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