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Custom Pilot Offset Dialog

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Re: Custom Pilot Offset Dialog

Postby wlbragg » Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:16 pm

- who is the target audience for this dialog?

I think it is both.
Developers for obvious reasons, but as a user I prefer to set my own view position different from what a developer may thinks it should be. Not to mention In reality you have different height people. I think there should be an easy to use interface for user to adjust this position if they choose to do so. I really liked the idea of the GUI interface (if it worked correctly), but I was never able to get it to tune in small enough increments to be of any use. However, a value input field would be nice to have for other reason, but mostly from a development perspective.
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Re: Custom Pilot Offset Dialog

Postby zakalawe » Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:39 pm

Okay, I think that's the same offset accessed by ctrl-right-mouse dragging?

I agree this needs a user-facing dialog, but I don't think the existing one or the proposed addition are terribly usable solutions. The ctrl-right-drag solution allows nice fine control with the mouse, but of course it's hard to hit a precise numerical value.

I am wondering if the solution might be to better document the mouse mode (there's a few proposals to do that, eg startup tips), and then make the dialog be targeted at people needing numerical precision, in which case the dials are not a good choice, direct entry of values would make much more sense.
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Re: Custom Pilot Offset Dialog

Postby Thorsten » Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:40 pm

I think there should be an easy to use interface for user to adjust this position if they choose to do so.


There is - in view mode, hold middle mouse button, move mouse and enjoy.
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Re: Custom Pilot Offset Dialog

Postby zakalawe » Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:41 pm

(It would also be nice to make the per-view offset saved in the aircraft-data, since I imagine many people adjust this per aircraft slightly)
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Re: Custom Pilot Offset Dialog

Postby Thorsten » Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:43 pm

Unless a fighter aircraft has parallax effect implemented in the HUD (which few have), it's fairly dangerous to do move the view from the default because then the HUD will show wrong. Saving this will then not help...
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Re: Custom Pilot Offset Dialog

Postby zakalawe » Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:15 pm

Ah true, but I guess this is true regardless of how the view is moved? And these aircraft don't disable the current dialog / mouse mode? Or do they?
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Re: Custom Pilot Offset Dialog

Postby Thorsten » Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:24 pm

No, but the argument is that currently the aircraft sets the default views. If you move it, all you need to do is re-start the aircraft and you'll get exactly back to them.

Once you auto-save a potentially problematic view, you have no straightforward way to get rid of it and recover the original (you might not want to wipe all auto-saved things or restore everything to default...)

Given how easy it is to modify the view position with the mouse, I don't think changes need to be saved.

(To answer you other question - I frequently use exact number positioning for development, but then I always use the property browser. The dialog is chiefly useful for screenshots from unusual angles, but then again it doesn't go far enough, many of my better shots are from 500-1000 m distance - so again, property browser...)
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Re: Custom Pilot Offset Dialog

Postby wlbragg » Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:27 pm

There is - in view mode, hold middle mouse button, move mouse and enjoy.


Admittedly I am not the sharpest tack in the room, but in all the time I have used FG, I didn't know this feature was available. Or if I did I forgot about it. Yeah, that works great! I still think a GUI replicating that action, solely for casual users that wouldn't readily be able to find that information, wouldn't hurt. Then again I suppose there are hundreds of available trick one could hook to the GUI.

Unless a fighter aircraft has parallax effect implemented in the HUD (which few have), it's fairly dangerous to do move the view from the default because then the HUD will show wrong. Saving this will then not help...

No, but the argument is that currently the aircraft sets the default views. If you move it, all you need to do is re-start the aircraft and you'll get exactly back to them.

If it were cached per aircraft then that shouldn't necessarily be an issue.
To cash it or not, feels like maybe it should be a per aircraft GUI option added by the developer.
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Re: Custom Pilot Offset Dialog

Postby Thorsten » Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:40 pm

Actually, a logarithmic dialog for changing view position would be useful, because that we can't easily get by other means (for an example, look into max. visibility range setting in the weather dialog - it has fine control at the low end, getting more coarse as you go to the high end).
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Re: Custom Pilot Offset Dialog

Postby CaptB » Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:04 pm

I learned about moving the view with the mouse only after I made the changes to the dialog, If the dials are not useful to the general public, and the version with fine tuning is too complicated or not needed , why not lose that dialog all together and keep it KISS?
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Re: Custom Pilot Offset Dialog

Postby zakalawe » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:40 pm

Well that is what I am wondering: if the mouse mode covers the end-user case (but, with better discovery, which is a general issue we have - current though of mine+Staurt's is to optionally display tips like this on the splash screen, so people gradually become aware of them), and the property inspector allows precise numerical entry, I would sooner loose the dialog, rather than trying to fix it.

Regarding persistence or not, I can see both arguments, if we made it auto-save it would need a 'reset to aircraft default' as we have for FoV and similar. Keeping it as currently done (not saved) is easier given how easy it is to adjust, but I don't feel strongly either way.
Last edited by Johan G on Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: No need to quote the entire preceding post
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Re: Custom Pilot Offset Dialog

Postby wlbragg » Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:31 am

- current though of mine+Staurt's is to optionally display tips like this on the splash screen, so people gradually become aware of them)


That is a real good idea. Also tips such as The "Help/Basic Simulator Keys" GUI screen is your friend!


Even adding the "middle mouse button down in view mode" trick to the the "Help/Basic Simulator Keys" would go a long way, I don't know that I ever looked at that help screen until today. That screen or even another new "Advanced Simulator Keys" should contain as many of these helper function descriptions as possible. If those "help" screens were complete, I wouldn't be opposed to removing the GUI option.
Last edited by wlbragg on Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Custom Pilot Offset Dialog

Postby benih » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:06 pm

Hi, i stumbled onto this thread and wondered if there is any solution already implemented in the code?
I think that a helper text at the gui dialog would be enough but preferrably the new Buttons should be added too, so users get their choice.
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