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FlightGear in space (was DOOM (2016) - Graphics Study)

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FlightGear in space (was DOOM (2016) - Graphics Study)

Postby vitos » Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:33 pm

Hooray wrote in Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:13 pm:Let's keep in in that the original PLIB->OSG migration started pretty much exactly a decade ago, and still hasn't been completed yet.


I find this much more scary than imaginary massacre.

"Go to the Moon" Kennedy speech:



"Uncle Albert" Paul McCartney song:

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Re: DOOM (2016) - Graphics Study

Postby Hooray » Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:45 pm

it's not like there is a plethora of contributors intimately familiar with OSG/OpenGL internals willing to help with said work, so it does make sense that it is taking so long - besides many of the helping hands are no longer as actively involved in FG matters.
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Re: DOOM (2016) - Graphics Study

Postby vitos » Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:38 am

Hooray wrote in Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:45 pm:it's not like there is a plethora of contributors intimately familiar with OSG/OpenGL internals willing to help with said work, so it does make sense that it is taking so long - besides many of the helping hands are no longer as actively involved in FG matters.


It's always possible to find some explanation of things not works. On my view, it's other one - people are not flying to space from feudalism really, even if that called "communism" or so.



Since they just have not energy to rise above all that there - it's all wasted on "who under who" questions solving. Plus, if fuht fur powah is hard, it makes some people left. For sure.

Plus - here that is not the case, but I should mention it since this was case with real space programs not once, nor twice - feudalism tends to produce some beliefs, these are useful to control people - while in real life "It will fly, by Gods will!" approach working not.

BTW, You may see that I was right when, as some biblical prophet, denounced ill fate of that project in years. Only one opportunity I missed - that it would just stay at some state with quite minor changes at upper levels. Or did I missed it? Can't remember exactly, it was five years ago.



Nah, and as of hands - I do not make same proposition twice. Once I told at development list that I do not actually want to work at core, but if someone would help me to get into it - as Yurik and other guys at Russian forum helped me with "MiG-15" development, without their help at this initial phase all three my models would not exist - but not one answered to me at development list. My hand was rejected then. Same was with MPClash protocol proposition - that thing worked, and works still, but not as part of FG, while there is tons of other nasal stuff working as parts. I do not think of me as of some exception. Same, should be, occur with others too. So current state should be result of previous solutions. For sure.
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Re: DOOM (2016) - Graphics Study

Postby Hooray » Fri Sep 16, 2016 5:17 pm

Sorry, I must have missed that this thread is about spaceflight
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Re: DOOM (2016) - Graphics Study

Postby vitos » Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:10 pm

Hooray wrote in Fri Sep 16, 2016 5:17 pm:Sorry, I must have missed that this thread is about spaceflight


No problem, now You know.

Of course it's not about spaceflight. It's about why some people can shake hands at spaceflight really, while others can not do so even at simulation.

Just because some of people can not do so at simple conversation even, but do know a bit too much about "talk to the hand".

Some people just can't step over own fears to admit they are just same people as others.
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Re: DOOM (2016) - Graphics Study

Postby Hooray » Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:46 pm

Sorry, I am not sure I am getting your point ?
Anyway, the OSG port certainly isn't the only effort that has been taking years, if not even over a decade - such as e.g. revamping FlightGear's threading architecture, which is only in part about graphics (OSG).

If I am getting you correctly, you are trying to point out that the same people who argue over spaceflight don't seem to be very good at proper collaboration - and to be honest, I find the opposite being the case - i.e. people like Thorsten are obviously very passionate/motivated, but he's also good a remarkable track record of working together with many folks, including some who don't necessarily have the reputation for being easy to work with :D
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Re: DOOM (2016) - Graphics Study

Postby vitos » Fri Sep 16, 2016 11:06 pm

Hooray wrote in Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:46 pm:Sorry, I am not sure I am getting your point ?


Maybe, because it's not point, but space.

I said what I said, and pretty sure that You got what I said. One decade is period well enough to put man at the Moon - really. If something virtual taking more time to be made then it could mean only one thing - something wrong with people doing it.

And I made an assumption, what. On my view, they are't just friendly really. Can not account others equal, and could not work together at equal basis. If they could do that - tasks would be solved already, long ago. Particularly, they would have not need to invent ways to not comprehend each other instead of doing something useful.

For example, dude what You had mentioned - he never worked with me really. He just waited a bit to scandal with my project common rejection aka "space is not needed" to boil down - let me remind You, for example I was called "fool" at pubic, and then not guy said this was banned, but my topic was closed by moderator - then looked into gpl code in order of making own space project, pushing some else guy out of it, as I know. He never proposed to me any collaboration, nor questioned anything. He never continued my project, nor made an attempts to stay at my side at conflict.

So, some outsider could mind people are working together here - but it's not true. They doing that way, and result is as it is.
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Re: DOOM (2016) - Graphics Study

Postby Thorsten » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:56 am

He never continued my project


I know, facts are so tedious to verify when one can simply write a quick claim...
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Re: DOOM (2016) - Graphics Study

Postby vitos » Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:02 am

Thorsten wrote in Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:56 am:
He never continued my project


I know, facts are so tedious to verify when one can simply write a quick claim...


It's not "fake Earth" - "fake Earth" is nasal substitute of core engine providing fast view by same algorhythm for any altitude - but reflections of Earth at circular mirror, which is used for position controlling. When craft positioned correctly, reflection is at middle. It was not worked properly, though, since I dropped project. Still it's important thing, and if You would not try to push others out, but could collaborate with them, then You would know it.

And "to continue" at my view is not to remove things someone don't know and don't comprehend, but to make something comparable - for example, ejection seat to work, since it was used at all real Vostok flights.
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Re: DOOM (2016) - Graphics Study

Postby Thorsten » Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:10 am

For the record, I asked you a few times whether you still had interest in maintaining your works on FGAddon, you declined every time, so at some point I took over maintenance since by then the vehicle was unflyable (crashed upon liftoff due to integrator windup of the attitude controllers).

Not sure where the 'pushing out' occurred.

I exercised my own best judgement in making a couple of other changes (mostly visuals) - if you feel something needs to be fixed in another way or something needs to be added, feel free to send me a patch. There's no intention to prevent you from further development, should you wish so.

And that's really all I have to say.
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Re: DOOM (2016) - Graphics Study

Postby vitos » Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:13 am

Thorsten wrote in Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:10 am:For the record, I asked you a few times whether you still had interest in maintaining your works on FGAddon, you declined every time, so at some point I took over maintenance since by then the vehicle was unflyable (crashed upon liftoff due to integrator windup of the attitude controllers).


Of course I don't. I don't want to do things to be treated that way later. As of crashes - initially anything worked fine, then someone changed something at lower levels - common thing at FG. After couple of times names of lower level properties changed without any other visible reason than using of these properties at my project only at whole FG - I decided it would be not reasonable to work wi.. for such people.

As of "pushing out" - I conversed with Herby at MP, and he told me that initially he made Shuttle.
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Re: DOOM (2016) - Graphics Study

Postby Thorsten » Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:25 am

I think you'll find that it was initially Jon S. Berndt who started the Shuttle, Gijs de Rooy who had another attempt at it and HerbyW who took that material and told me to create my own version since he doesn't want to work with me.

I know, inconvenient facts again.
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Re: DOOM (2016) - Graphics Study

Postby vitos » Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:31 am

Thorsten wrote in Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:25 am:I think you'll find that it was initially Jon S. Berndt who started the Shuttle, Gijs de Rooi who had another attempt at it and HerbyW who took that material and told me to create my own version since he doesn't want to work with me.


Is his version existed at FG Addon? If not then truth is somehow You did push him out.
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Re: DOOM (2016) - Graphics Study

Postby Thorsten » Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:36 am

Jon's?

It's here, it's just an FDM for the gliding phase though.
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Re: DOOM (2016) - Graphics Study

Postby vitos » Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:55 am

Thorsten wrote in Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:36 am:Jon's?


Not, of Herby. Notice how "miscomprehending" works.
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