Before you post wishing for X or Y...

[legoboyvdlp]

However, I do think you may agree that a post "PLZ MAKE WINLETS FOR THE BOOING 775" might not generate a fruitful response; ie, winglets for the 757?
(Note, this is an example, not an actual occurence)
Best wishes,
Jonathan

My reasoning as thus:
1. Proper grammar, while not essential, goes a long way. It demonstartes a level of maturity which is desireable.
2. A post like this demonstrates entitleism. They believe that as a 'customer' (which obviously is not the case here...) that they get to ask for whatever they want; even the famous 778 (787 with 777 cockpit) proposed recently in the 787 GIT topic.
3. If one really wants winglets, surely it is better to have a go at doing it yourself? Casd in point: I did not ask someone in loud tones to make SVMI in WED, but instead downloaded WED, and made the nicest airport in South America. (Thanks, viveFG)
4. Respect goes a long way: which would you prefer?
"HI PLS MAKE WINGLETS 4 THE 757" or "Hello! Thanks for your nice work. However, another detail which could be added is winglets. If you are not busy, could you possibly add winglets to the 757? Thanks!

[clrCoda]

AH! You completely missed the point. ( seems I did too, and don't be offended )

Posters come as they are.

If you have decided to field the posts of people who you have no idea their age, education, sophistication then meet them where they are.

If you are attempting to make them feel bad for posting at all and make them feel bad in comparison of the miracles you personally have accomplished with a software that they can not seem to use correctly... don't you see, you push the people you want to help over to X-plane or some other endeavor and ruin the experience for the person asking.

RE: Before you <ANSWER A> post wishing for X or Y...
remember what brought you here. Remember what the excitement is all about. Remember the first frustration that caused you to find the forum in the first place.

And for goodness sakes please be kind in doing so.

[stuart]

Hi All,

I'm frankly astounded: - within a week of me having to remove a pile of unacceptable posts from this topic, I come back from a weekend away to find exactly the same behaviour going on, on the same thread.

I've removed a chunk of posts again. I'm going to go over them and decide whether bans are appropriate. I'm also going to consider whether we have to start having moderators approving posts from Thorsten and/or Bomber before they are published, as clearly they cannot be trusted to behave in a constructive manner.

-Stuart the mod.

[Bomber]

I don't think it'd do any harm if both Thorsten and my posts were stamped approved by 'which ever' moderator prior to posting..

[punkepanda]

Not and/or.. Only "and".. I do not find Thorstens comments any better than Bombers when it comes to personal attacks etc.
The law shall then go for both!

[Hooray]

I don't know, harsh language seems sometimes necessary to bring across a point, given that we aren't talking face to face.

Also, many people pushing for moderation tend to be considered over-zealous elsewhere, keep in mind that the same language is often tolerated when used by more senior/accomplished contributors.

In fact, you could just as well add me to your blacklist of people who need their postings reviewed before they show up.

But I assure you, doing so will provide for a busy day, given how many users may be affected by this once we stop applying double standards.

Besides, neither you, nor any of the other senior contributors, was obviously bothered by having to tolerate some fairly harsh language in the "Development push" thread (which I didn't start) - so my suggestion would be to tread carefully here.

After all, we are adults, and we should be able to tolerate certain language - keep in mind that the devel list isn't typically moderated at all, but that doesn't make it any more mature necessarily.

Personally, I am unlikely to moderate/report such postings, but also expect that my responses are also tolerated accordingly.

Indeed, searching the forum/devel list for terms like **** etc, the forum seems in pretty good shape actually.

[stuart]

I would say that because we're not face to face it is important not to use harsh language, as it can be taken much more strongly than intended. As you know, we've had many instances of people taking offence where it wasn't intended, particularly when one or both participants are communicating using a second language. You might tell me that I'm talking crap while smiling if we were having a pint together, but it's a bit different when it's on a screen . Far better to be as polite and friendly as possible, and assume the best interpretation of other's writing.

In this particular case, the quality of conversation was far below the "Development push" thread. I was quite unhappy about the tone of that conversation as well for multiple reasons.

The issue isn't so much the language, but the tone and lack of respect for others apparent in the thread and that is permeating the rest of the forum. People seem to be forgetting that we're all involved in FlightGear because we enjoy it. For the vast majority of us, it's something we do in our recreational time (for "fun"), and we've all got positive motives. This forum should be a place where everyone can have a positive experience interacting with others who share our interests. We don't have to agree on every point, and indeed don't need to jump and argue every topic. I think a little bit of understanding and friendliness would go a long way.

I may not agree with all of the points made by Thorsten, Edward, yourself, Bomber, Curt or Torsten, but that's fine. I don't need to try to argue a topic to death, refuting every single point being made. I don't have the time, and it's not fun for anyone.

I need to think about how to formulate the above into sensible rules that can be followed that don't seem completely arbitrary. However, in the meantime I will be looking at posts and intervening where I feel the conversational tone is not nice enough. In a friendly way, of course .

-Stuart