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New F-15 (C,D)

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New F-15 (C,D)

Postby Richard » Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:25 pm

I've just released a finished version of my F-15 ready for beta testing.

Image

Image

This aircraft model has a lot of complexity; see http://wiki.flightgear.org/McDonell_Douglas_F-15_Eagle for more details.

All feedback in this topic please.

--Richard
ps. Hopefully this is a fitting acknowledgement of the 4th July celebrations. If we weren't releasing FG3.6 on the 17th July I'd have waited for the 27th July as that is the first flight of the real aircraft.
Last edited by Richard on Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New F-15 (C,D)

Postby flyingfisch » Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:56 pm

Beautiful work, I love it :)

(This is my favorite fighter plane BTW)
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Re: New F-15 (C,D)

Postby massima » Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:24 pm

Thanks for your efforts, i'm sure it is a great plane.
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Re: New F-15 (C,D)

Postby massima » Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:02 am

I flied the Eagle, it seems to fly very well.
I remember that the Eagle was the first plane which could climb vertically (it has been developed a special version called "satellite killer", the name explains its task). So i tried its capability: full AB, and i almost vertically reached 75000 ft :shock: (from wikipedia, real eagle reached 38100 ft), need we really a shuttle? :wink:

On my system i've merged 2 monitors in a single wide one, i have a issue with HUD (i gotta a reverted JHMCS, see my shot).
I was surprised when i saw the f-15 hud, the issue is disappeared. How did you fix it?

P.S.: no issue with the hud on a single monitor.

Image
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Re: New F-15 (C,D)

Postby onox » Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:07 am

That's because the HUD of the f-14 is still an old (C++) HUD, while the one in the f15 is most likely a Canvas HUD.
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Re: New F-15 (C,D)

Postby Thorsten » Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:42 am

So i tried its capability: full AB, and i almost vertically reached 75000 ft (from wikipedia, real eagle reached 38100 ft), need we really a shuttle?


I don't think wikipedia quotes ballistic arctop altitudes - fighter jets can do 80.000 ft or so in ballistic arcs. But you're easily impressed it seems, the SR-71 can do sustained flight at 85.000 ft, the X-15 reaches an arctop of more than 300.000 ft and, well, the Shuttle goes to ~2.000.000 ft if you care to convert a 600 km orbit into an altitude.

The F-15 has a thrust/weight ratio of 1.07, i.e. it will climb vertically - the Shuttle has on liftoff a thrust/weight of 1.7 - i.e. it'll accelerate 10 times faster vertically than the F-15. If you would do an acceleration race, the F-15 would look really slow in comparison.

So despite its powerful thrusters, the F-15 is rather different from a rocket. :-)
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Re: New F-15 (C,D)

Postby flyingfisch » Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:52 pm

So I took it out for a spin, really nice plane. Unfortunately the sim gets a little choppy due to the high quality model, I'll have to buy a new computer soon. Interestingly, even though all I have is FG 3.4, the ALS interior shadows are working.

Image

Image

Image



Also, it is possible to put it into a flat spin, direction of travel in the next pic is straight down, and the plane is spinning flat on the Z plane. After wrestling with the controls a bit I got it into a flat spin horizontally with the ground, seconds before smashing into the ground.

Image
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Re: New F-15 (C,D)

Postby Johan G » Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:36 pm

One of the reasons one should start spin recovery by reducing power (the P part in the PARE mnemonic) is that doing so reduces the risk of getting into a flat spin. Also one of the few ways out from a flat spin is to increase power and while trying find out which combinations of control inputs that has the most effect.

Unfortunately a flat spin could quite possibly disturb the airflow around the inlets, which I suppose could cause engine problems. In addition to that, for many purely delta winged aircraft, flat spins are pretty much non-recoverable.

Flat spins are scary stuff. :?

By the way, this post of mine could be of interest (and the post that that one in turn link to): Re: trying to spin. :wink:

Edit: Spelling. :roll:
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Re: New F-15 (C,D)

Postby bugman » Mon Jul 06, 2015 1:07 pm

Hi Richard,

For Linux and Mac users, could you capitalise the 'Models/liveries' directory to 'Models/Liveries' in FGAddon? On my Linux system, after fixing this I still see a number of other start up errors:

Code: Select all
FGPropertyManager::GetNode() No node found for gear/gear-dmd-norm
FGPropertyManager::GetNode() No node found for gear/gear-dmd-norm
FGPropertyManager::GetNode() No node found for gear/gear-dmd-norm
FGPropertyManager::GetNode() No node found for gear/gear-dmd-norm
FGPropertyManager::GetNode() No node found for propulsion/engine[0]/augmentation-alight
FGPropertyManager::GetNode() No node found for propulsion/engine[0]/augmentation-alight
FGPropertyManager::GetNode() No node found for propulsion/engine[0]/augmentation-alight
FGPropertyManager::GetNode() No node found for propulsion/engine[0]/augmentation-alight
FGPropertyManager::GetNode() No node found for propulsion/engine[0]/augmentation-alight
FGPropertyManager::GetNode() No node found for propulsion/engine[0]/augmentation-alight
FGPropertyManager::GetNode() No node found for propulsion/engine[0]/augmentation-alight
FGPropertyManager::GetNode() No node found for propulsion/engine[1]/augmentation-alight
FGPropertyManager::GetNode() No node found for propulsion/engine[1]/augmentation-alight
FGPropertyManager::GetNode() No node found for propulsion/engine[1]/augmentation-alight
FGPropertyManager::GetNode() No node found for propulsion/engine[1]/augmentation-alight
FGPropertyManager::GetNode() No node found for propulsion/engine[1]/augmentation-alight
FGPropertyManager::GetNode() No node found for propulsion/engine[1]/augmentation-alight
FGPropertyManager::GetNode() No node found for propulsion/engine[1]/augmentation-alight
Failed to tie property fcs/elevator-control to object methods
Bad operation gain detected in configuration file
Failed to tie property fcs/aileron-control to object methods
Failed to tie property fcs/left-aileron-normalization to object methods
Failed to tie property fcs/aileron-control to object methods
Failed to load file: "instruments/pitch-ratio-panel.xml"
Failed to load file: "Effects/Engines/AfterburnerL.xml"
Failed to load file: "Effects/Engines/AfterburnerR.xml"


Here is a patch fixing a few other capitalisation issues:

Code: Select all
Index: Models/Cockpit/cockpit.xml
===================================================================
--- Models/Cockpit/cockpit.xml  (revision 774)
+++ Models/Cockpit/cockpit.xml  (working copy)
@@ -43,7 +43,7 @@
         <path>f15-interior-back.xml</path>
     </model>
     <model>
-        <path>instruments/pitch-ratio-panel.xml</path>
+        <path>Instruments/pitch-ratio-panel.xml</path>
     </model>
 
     <model>
Index: Models/f15c.xml
===================================================================
--- Models/f15c.xml  (revision 774)
+++ Models/f15c.xml  (working copy)
@@ -1553,7 +1553,7 @@
     </model>-->
     <model>
         <nopreview/>
-        <path>Effects/Engines/AfterburnerL.xml</path>
+        <path>Effects/Engines/AfterBurnerL.xml</path>
         <offsets>
             <x-m>  6.188</x-m>
             <y-m>   -0.7164</y-m>
@@ -1565,7 +1565,7 @@
     <!-- Droite -->
     <model>
         <nopreview/>
-        <path>Effects/Engines/AfterburnerR.xml</path>
+        <path>Effects/Engines/AfterBurnerR.xml</path>
         <offsets>
             <x-m>  6.188</x-m>
             <y-m>  0.7096</y-m>


Cheers,

Edward
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Re: New F-15 (C,D)

Postby flyingfisch » Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:37 pm

Johan G wrote in Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:36 pm:One of the reasons one should start spine recovery by reducing power (the P part in the PARE mnemonic) is that doing so reduces the risk of getting into a flat spin. Also one of the few ways out from a flat spin is to increase power and while trying find out which combinations of control inputs that has the most effect.

Unfortunately a flat spin could quite possibly disturb the airflow around the inlets, which I suppose could cause engine problems. In addition to that, for many purely delta winged aircraft, flat spins are pretty much non-recoverable.

Flat spins are scary stuff. :?

By the way, this post of mine could be of interest (and the post that that one in turn link to): Re: trying to spin. :wink:


Yep, dangerous stuff, but fun in a sim. For the curious, the way I got it to flat spin was full power and AB till about 600kt, then hard forward and left stick. The plane rolls wildly and then starts spinning.
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Re: New F-15 (C,D)

Postby Necolatis » Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:57 am

Very cool aircraft. Could use an aircraft help in the menu though.
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Re: New F-15 (C,D)

Postby Richard » Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:58 pm

Thanks bugman; your patch has been applied to fgaddon.

I'll add a help menu; I'd forgotten to do so.

When in a spin the MPCD will provide a guidance page which indicates the recommended recovery procedure; this is something that I've had to figure out so it may not be right but it will generally tell you which direction to apply aileron demand to. Due to the nature of a flat spin it is often hard to perceive the yaw direction and rotation - and these are taken into account in the guidance page. The section for the throttles on this page is not implemented - until I can find some reference as to the correct throttle position for recovery.

And this is a flat spin

Image
Last edited by Richard on Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New F-15 (C,D)

Postby bugman » Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:43 pm

Richard wrote in Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:58 pm:Thanks bugman; your patch has been applied to fgaddon.


If you have problems with the 'Models/liveries' directory to 'Models/Liveries' renaming on Windows, which is required for the liveries to be available on Linux and Mac systems, just ask and I could help you with that (as I have FGAddon commit access). It may require you to delete your local 'Models/liveries' directory before running 'svn up' if your subversion client is too old.

Cheers,

Edward
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Re: New F-15 (C,D)

Postby Richard » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:39 am

massima wrote in Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:02 am:I flied the Eagle, it seems to fly very well.
So i tried its capability: full AB, and i almost vertically reached 75000 ft :shock: (from wikipedia, real eagle reached 38100 ft)

..... I was surprised when i saw the f-15 hud, the issue is disappeared. How did you fix it?


An F15A nicknamed "Streak Eagle" broke eight time-to-climb world records between Jan. 16 and Feb. 1, 1975. In setting the last of the eight records, it reached an altitude of 98,425 feet just 3 minutes, 27.8 seconds from brake release at takeoff and "coasted" to nearly 103,000 feet before descending. http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=621

The HUD on the F-15 is implemented in Canvas; I will redo the F-14 at some point - possibly before the 3.6 release but there are other more important things I want to get in. The old C++ hud isn't rendered in the same way so the positioning in the right place is very fiddly and view dependent.
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Re: New F-15 (C,D)

Postby Johan G » Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:02 pm

massima wrote in Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:02 am:...i almost vertically reached 75000 ft :shock: (from wikipedia, real eagle reached 38100 ft)...

The Wikipedia figure is most probably an estimate of the service ceiling.* And as said by Richard, a ballistic trajectory will get you way higher, though often at the expense of a need for engine restart as you get down to thicker air again.

* The service ceiling is the altitude at which the rate of climb is 100 ft/min at a stated loading, weight, and engine thrust (power) according to MIL-STD-3013A - Glossary of Definitions, Ground Rules, and Mission Profiles to Define Air Vehicle Performance Capability. I would dare guess the real numbers are classified. ;)
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