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Errors

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Errors

Postby k33bz » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:58 pm

Re-installed 2.10.03 late last night due to alot of problems. Added all my scenery that I had on my linux side (2.04 I think that version is). Tried it out last night, as well as this morning. Everything works like it is suppose to.

But I figured I would get more up to date, dev stuff from git. Made a back up of everything in my data file. (So I still have that to fall back on). Then merged the git fgdata files, all of them. After which I notied that that version is actually 2.99, but with some updated stuff. Regardless I took care of that error by replacing the version text. However when I run it, I have a few errors that I want to track down, dont notice any game play effects from them, but want to get to the bottom, which I will work out on my own.

Then there is an error I want to get rid of, when I try to enter something in GPS, I get errors.
Code: Select all
Nasal runtime error: undefined symbol: positioned
at _dlg:gps, line 74
called from: /sim/bindings/gui/binding[3], line 1


Where are these two files? I cant seem to find a directory /sim nor can I find a file _dlg:gps.
Or are these place holder reserved in memory, if so what file would control these?
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Re: Errors

Postby Philosopher » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:15 pm

First of all, as you're seeing, a fair number of Nasal changes have been made which require both updated binary and data, so some features won't really work. To downgrade, cd into the FGData directory and run:
Code: Select all
git checkout release/2.10

(or similar, use «git branch» to see a list of local branches)

Anyways, what you're seeing aren't actually filenames:
  • _dlg:gps is for the open/close section of the dialog with a name tag equal to gps – this one happens to reside in $FG_ROOT/gui/dialogs/gps.xml (I think)
  • /sim/bindings/gui/binding[n] nodes are used for bindings taken from dialog files and are pretty much randomly assigned, but it's a good guess that it comes from the GPS dialog too.
Thanks,
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Re: Errors

Postby k33bz » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:22 pm

oh yes, I see alot of changes in nasal files, looking at controls.nas right now, one of the errors I mentioned earlier that I will work on on my own) the controls.nas from the stable release 2.10.03 only has 516 lines of code, where as the one in git fgdata has 567 lines of code. However I am sure if I take out the last line from version that was in git, that that paticular error will go away.

Had a hunch that they were place holders inside memory, was hoping they were not, but thank you for confirming that. I am going to try and work through it, even if I am unsuccessful, I still have my original back up of all the files in /data/.
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Re: Errors

Postby Hooray » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:47 pm

holy crap, I see what you are trying to do there - but I think there are too many misconceptions here, you should stop doing that right now - what you are trying to do simply isn't feasible, and you are only doing it because you don't understand all the repercussions yet.

That being said, Nasal is NOT the issue here - regardless if you are using 2.10, 2.12, 2.99 or even 2.0: The FlightGear binary will include an integrated Nasal interpreter. However, that's just one part of FlightGear - it works like JavaScript in your browser: as an embedded extension language, and the language has various bindings to other subsystems. So you cannot simply rip apart the simulator and put things back together afterwards - even if you were a really experienced C++ developer with 5+ years of FG experience, you wouldn't be doing that - simply because it's a bad idea, and there are better ways to solve such issues (such as using the latest binary, or fixing any issues that prevent you from running it).

The bottom line being, you cannot simply take fgdata 2.99 and try to run it with a 2.10 binary and expect things to work - we've had a thread related to this a while ago: Subject: Citation X CVS to FG 1.9.1

Hooray wrote:Quoting myself:

viewtopic.php?f=46&t=9516&p=95698&hilit=forward+compatibility#p95615
Hooray wrote:This is not at all about "backward compatibility" - what you are asking for is sort of "forward compatibility". :lol:

What you have basically done is creating a document in "Microsoft Office 2010", and now you expect to be able to open this document in "Microsoft Office 97".

This is of course not possible. You have used new features that didn't exist in previous versions of FlightGear - FlightGear is improving, and you are basically complaining about the fact that these new features were not yet available in prior FlightGear versions.

Backward compatibility is about supporting features of past software versions in new/future versions. You are asking for the reverse.

To explain this even more bluntly: If users started to use YOUR aircraft now with FG 2.0, they would probably complain that YOUR aircraft was not implemented with backward compatibility in mind - simply because your work doesn't work with older FG versions.

Weird world, isn't it :-)


We should probably copy this to the FAQ?


In other words, you cannot expect today's newspaper to show up in the archives of 2010 - that's all there's to it, really.

Imagine for a second using "Photoshop 2013" - saving a file and trying to open it in "Photoshop 1999" - while the data is there, the program/code doesn't know how to deal with it.
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Re: Errors

Postby k33bz » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:53 pm

With that in mind, I will just delete everything I just got from git fgdata, and move my backup files back in place then.

However, quick question, I understand the backwards compatibility issue, lol, even the part you said todays newspaper not being able to be in archives of a few years back.

But my question is, if the git file on gitorious is development (which is constantly improving) why is it at version 2.99, and not version 2.11 or 2.10.4 or something that is above the current release?

(Which is why I probable assumed that the core itself is the same because of those things I am asking about)
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Re: Errors

Postby Hooray » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:59 pm

k33bz wrote in Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:53 pm:With that in mind, I will just delete everything I just got from git fgdata, and move my backup files back in place then.

I wouldn't delete things yet, just rename the folder - so that you can reuse it, once you decide to use the latest version from git, which saves you tons of time and bandwidth.

However, quick question, I understand the backwards compatibility issue, lol, even the part you said todays newspaper not being able to be in archives of a few years back.

Ya, I am known for my colorful analogies that are intended to be fool-proof :D

But my question is, if the git file on gitorious is development (which is constantly improving) why is it at version 2.99, and not version 2.11 or 2.10.4 or something that is above the current release?

see the release plan: http://wiki.flightgear.org/Release_Plan#Version_numbers
basically: 99 is greater than 10, than 12 :D

(Which is why I probable assumed that the core itself is the same because of those things I am asking about)

It's a known issue, we are hoping to fix the versioning scheme after 3.0: http://wiki.flightgear.org/Release_plan ... arned#2.12 (see the versioning sectoin there)

Version numbering:
There was already a couple of people on IRC confused that 2.12 is different to 2.1.2 (since minor version numbers > 9 are something of a rarity in many people's perception).[4]
— James Turner

Give our release pattern is date scheduled, an Ubuntu style numbering scheme would actually make more sense, but a bit more effort to move too.[5]
— James Turner

Externally, 3.0 is going to be considered a bigger deal than 2.12.0.[6]
— Stuart Buchanan

I suggest that we zero-pad the minor release digit after 3.0.0 so we have 3.02, 3.04 etc. to reduce confusion if we reach double digits.[7]
— Stuart Buchanan

many computer systems sort file names in ascii order, many people don't seem to pay careful attention to where the decimal points are placed, etc. Once we clear past the 2.10, 2.12, etc. series, I'd like to go back to keeping things single digits in the major and minor version numbers and when we run out of a single digits bump up the major number (so 3.8.x -> 4.0.x). Number are numbers, but this one confused a lot more people than I expected it would or should so maybe it's good to be sensitive to that after we clear the 2.x series of versions.[8]
— Curtis Olson

That sounds OK to me, as it would imply a full release every 2.5 years, give a clear flag ahead of time when we're nearing a major release, and save having these discussions in the future. For reference, with the current plan there will be 4 years between 2.0.0 (Feb 2010) was and 3.0.0 (Feb 2014). [9]
— Stuart Buchanan

I've set the version files on 'next' to be 2.99, on the assumption the next release will be 3.0 as discussed.[10]
— James Turner


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Re: Errors

Postby k33bz » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:08 am

Dont really see why I would save it, when as you stated, its not compatible with 2.10, nor the 2.12 that will be coming out soon, in anyway shape or form. Unless I do end up forward to see if I cant knock it down to work with 2.10 with some extra features.

A better convention of version number was best described up above, 2.10, 2.11, so on and so forth, as minor changes though, and going from 2.xx to 3.xx as major changes. Makes it a bit difficult when you have 2 different types of version numbering, 2.1.1 and 2.11, either one decimal or two decimals on every release, lol. At least IMO :)

But I think I will just stick with stable releases for now, wait for 2.12 for when it comes out. :)
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Re: Errors

Postby k33bz » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:31 am

At any rate, I just moved all the /data/ files back into fgdata and renamed it fgdata 2.99. Then moved my back up back to /data
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Re: Errors

Postby Hooray » Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:18 am

saving the fgdata git checkout will allow you to EASILY and QUICKLY use 2.99+ - without having to spend all the time & bandwidth again on downloading the repo.
you previously mentioned Linux, building FG from source is fairly straightforward with debian based distros using brisa's script.
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Re: Errors

Postby k33bz » Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:27 pm

Hooray wrote in Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:18 am:saving the fgdata git checkout will allow you to EASILY and QUICKLY use 2.99+ - without having to spend all the time & bandwidth again on downloading the repo.
you previously mentioned Linux, building FG from source is fairly straightforward with debian based distros using brisa's script.



Yes I know that there is an easy script, I came across it when I had troubles getting FG to work in Linux. Only thing is Fedora is a RPM based system and not a DEB based system. I re-worked the script to do what I needed it to do to get it working on Fedora, which now it does work. Just with all the stuff I do I barely log into my linux side any more. But 2.06 is still installed over there. While 2.10 is installed over here.

Would I be able to have both 2.10 and 2.99 installed on my windows side, and be able to choose which one I play? If so I might do that and see what 2.99 has to offer.
Last edited by k33bz on Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Errors

Postby Hooray » Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:33 pm

Would I be able to have both 2.10 and 2.99 installed on my windows side, and be able to choose which one I play?

yes, why not ? simply use different folders during installation.

If so I might do that and see what 2.99 has to offer.

In comparison to 2.10, 2.99 has to offer this: http://wiki.flightgear.org/Changelog_2.12
Plus anything that's currently being developed, which won't make it into 2.12, i.e. things scheduled for 3.0: http://wiki.flightgear.org/Changelog_3.0


Regarding your Linux changes, please get in touch with brisa via PM - he once said that he was interested in also supporting redhat/yum based distros, in fact there's a dedicated wiki page about it: http://wiki.flightgear.org/CentOS
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
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Re: Errors

Postby k33bz » Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:35 pm

Hooray wrote in Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:33 pm:Regarding your Linux changes, please get in touch with brisa via PM - he once said that he was interested in also supporting redhat/yum based distros, in fact there's a dedicated wiki page about it: http://wiki.flightgear.org/CentOS



That might be a problem, done so long ago, I am not sure if I still even have that script. Remember I had stopped playing FGFS for a long time, actually its been almost exactly a year.
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Re: Errors

Postby k33bz » Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:43 pm

But here is me talking about it, and the problems that had risen, and actaully I was totally wrong about the version that is installed, its actually 2.8 that is installed on my linux boot.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=17374&p=165555#p165555

There is also this one, this is the one that you had helped with as well, started with the repo version which was outdated:

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=17308&p=164660#p164660
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