Board index FlightGear Development

Outerra Engine

FlightGear is opensource, so you can be the developer. In the need for help on anything? We are here to help you.
Forum rules
Core development is discussed on the official FlightGear-Devel development mailing list.

Bugs can be reported in the bug tracker.

Should we switch our engine to Outerra?

Yay
25
52%
Nay
23
48%
 
Total votes : 48

Outerra Engine

Postby jack » Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:24 am

I've come across this awesome engine called Outerra.

It appears to simulate the environment much better than our current engine(OSG) does. AFAIK our current engine does not simulate Space, Water, and many terrain types like Mud, Sand, Gravel, Dirt, Ice, etc.



This engine has not been released yet, but when it is, it might be beneficial to the project to switch to it. :)

Our current engine cannot even scale the earth correctly, so views like this are impossible. :(

Image


You can follow the development here: http://www.outerra.org/

What do you guys think about switching to this in the future? Yay or Nay? Please post a response with the reason of your choice and any additional thoughts. :)
Last edited by jack on Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
For Military Aircraft, Scenery, and more, visit http://alphashangar.co.nr/

'Retired' from FlightGear as of July 2011. You can contact me via my website if you'd like to pick up any old projects.
User avatar
jack
Retired
 
Posts: 1440
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Location: KLVK
Callsign: Alpha-J, Rescue1
Version: GIT
OS: Mac OS X

Re: Outerra Engine

Postby skyop » Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:26 am

My question is, what benefits (specifically) does Outerra give over OSG? Because surely there are benefits that OSG has over Outerra.

And it'll take a LOT of time to switch- we'd probably have to reprogram half the systems of FG!
Aircraft: [ CRJ700-family | DC-10-30 ] Scenery: [ KBFL ]
skyop
 
Posts: 3047
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:40 am
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
IRC name: skyop
Version: next
OS: Fedora 23/Windows 10

Re: Outerra Engine

Postby jack » Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:38 am

Outerra gives many benefits over OSG, including:

Correctly simulated terrain types i.e. when you land an aircraft in the sand, the skids will sink into it, the rotor wash will send sand particles flying all over, etc.

Water environments are simulated correctly, you can sail a ship realistically, command a submarine, all things that we cannot currently come close to. :o

Erosion and decay are simulated. i.e. grass dies in extreme heat, dirt erodes away from winds, coastal rocks are worn away by waves, runways start to become worn and get skid marks, same with roads.

That's what I can name off the top of my head, I'll read up and see what else there is. :)


Outerra shouldn't be too hard to switch to, considering that they use many similar things to us including JSBsim.
For Military Aircraft, Scenery, and more, visit http://alphashangar.co.nr/

'Retired' from FlightGear as of July 2011. You can contact me via my website if you'd like to pick up any old projects.
User avatar
jack
Retired
 
Posts: 1440
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Location: KLVK
Callsign: Alpha-J, Rescue1
Version: GIT
OS: Mac OS X

Re: Outerra Engine

Postby simbabeat » Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:06 am

Wow I am extremely impressed. It looks so real.

And jack, you say they already used jsbsim? Ok I was wondering how they were flying that 172. It looks amazing.

Is it going to be open source?
User avatar
simbabeat
 
Posts: 3435
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:19 am

Re: Outerra Engine

Postby Quadunit404 » Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:07 am

X-Plane also uses OSG, although that might be due to the lack of Outerra's existence beyond concepts. I'd say stick with OSG for now as it's more prominent in the world of flight simulation and actually exists right now :wink:
Quadunit404
 
Posts: 1566
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 7:41 pm
Location: Attleboro, MA

Re: Outerra Engine

Postby Farmboy » Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:27 am

Outerra is phenomenal, as it was brought up awhile back. I think they developers are planning to create their own simulators from it, and likely from a commercial end. (I may be wrong on that)

Peter
Horsepower is just an illusion. Torque is the true answer.
User avatar
Farmboy
 
Posts: 436
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:10 pm
Location: NorthEast New York State, and the rest of New England....

Re: Outerra Engine

Postby HHS » Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:58 am

A big fat, loud Ouch!!!
Here some people failed, sorry to say that....

I use clear words to prevent a mess about this topic:

Quadunit404 wrote:X-Plane also uses OSG, although that might be due to the lack of Outerra's existence beyond concepts. I'd say stick with OSG for now as it's more prominent in the world of flight simulation and actually exists right now


WRONG!

X-Plane uses OpenGL, not OSG! Never ever! OSG (http://www.OpenSceneGraph.com) is graphic library which makes uses of OpenGL

Jack wrote:Outerra shouldn't be too hard to switch to, considering that they use many similar things to us including JSBsim.

Not right. Outerra is a completly different system, and it would need a big hard step to change our whole flightsimulation system to it. That isn't that easy , and it is probably easier using all features of OSG than from Outerra.
JSBSim btw. is a project independant of FlightGear, and I would like to see YASim as well in a fork of FlightGear.

Then:
The FlightGear flight simulator project is an open-source, multi-platform, cooperative flight simulator development project. Source code for the entire project is available and licensed under the GNU General Public License.


To my knowledge Outerra isn't OpenSource and with that not compatible with our current licence. It will be commercial, and even it is not yet published in which way this engine will be used! Reading the whole Outerra-blog had given you the same answer!
Behind that project are people who developed the IL-2 simulator and as I heard even the BlackShark-simulator. Both a more or less closed games, (but very, very realistic games!)


Outerra is impressive- but I don't see currently no way to use it for FGFS! :(
Up, up and away
User avatar
HHS
Retired
 
Posts: 3624
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:09 am
Version: GIT

Re: Outerra Engine

Postby jonsberndt » Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:38 pm

HHS wrote in Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:58 am:To my knowledge Outerra isn't OpenSource and with that not compatible with our current licence. It will be commercial, and even it is not yet published in which way this engine will be used! Reading the whole Outerra-blog had given you the same answer!
Behind that project are people who developed the IL-2 simulator and as I heard even the BlackShark-simulator. Both a more or less closed games, (but very, very realistic games!)

Outerra is impressive- but I don't see currently no way to use it for FGFS! :(


I believe this is correct - Outerra is not open source. It is/will be using JSBSim via a DLL interface - possibly similar to how FlightGear interfaces with FDMs - in order to satisfy the LGPL and allow other flight models to be integrated.

It certainly is an amazing piece of work, though.

Jon
Jon S. Berndt
Development Coordinator
JSBSim Project
http://www.JSBSim.org
http://www.facebook.com/jsbsim
User avatar
jonsberndt
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:44 am
Location: Westminster, Colorado

Re: Outerra Engine

Postby simbabeat » Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:43 pm

Alright I voted yay before I knew it wasn't open source but it wouldn't let me take my vote back.

My question is, are we not satisfied with OSG? There is certainly the potential for better, as seen with Outerra there.

Cheers
User avatar
simbabeat
 
Posts: 3435
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:19 am

Re: Outerra Engine

Postby El Flauta » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:23 pm

simbabeat wrote in Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:43 pm:My question is, are we not satisfied with OSG? There is certainly the potential for better, as seen with Outerra there.

I think that "the problem" is the current terrain & scenery, not the engine.

FlightGear need better texturization, on planes and scenaries (i.e., a 512x512 png in a plane isn't a texture, is just a draft. Or worst, is a real joke), and more detailed models. The terrain development tools much be improved, and needs an easier installation and better designed GUI (a good designed interface makes the job easy, efficient and faster). A lot of sound samples must be improved and replaced, too.

What i think that are the main lacks on current OSG use? lack of shadows and real illumination. It's my opinion.
Vive FlightGear! Have you a Ñ on your keyboard? Spain-LatinAmerica FlightGear community!
--
PZL M18B Dromader
CASA C-101 Aviojet
Cessna 337G Skymaster
User avatar
El Flauta
 
Posts: 429
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:09 am
Location: SCVM, Chile
Callsign: CC-FLT
Version: 3
OS: Windows 7 SP1

Re: Outerra Engine

Postby statto » Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:28 pm

El Flauta wrote in Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:23 pm:
simbabeat wrote in Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:43 pm:My question is, are we not satisfied with OSG? There is certainly the potential for better, as seen with Outerra there.

I think that "the problem" is the current terrain & scenery, not the engine.


I think this is a chicken and egg problem, what comes first.

This is an area where we could use a lot of improvement, both with the scenery and the terrain engine. But few are working on it.
Custom Scenery available from http://www.stattosoftware.com/flightgear
statto
 
Posts: 2112
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:57 pm

Re: Outerra Engine

Postby El Flauta » Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:08 pm

Eggs exists first! Dinosaurs and primitive fishes made an extensive use of them, before chicken apparition on world. :roll:

So, i guess that shadows and real illumination (landing, taxi, cabin, etc) maybe a good improvement for realism. OSG is the egg, the terrain is the chicken.
Vive FlightGear! Have you a Ñ on your keyboard? Spain-LatinAmerica FlightGear community!
--
PZL M18B Dromader
CASA C-101 Aviojet
Cessna 337G Skymaster
User avatar
El Flauta
 
Posts: 429
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:09 am
Location: SCVM, Chile
Callsign: CC-FLT
Version: 3
OS: Windows 7 SP1

Re: Outerra Engine

Postby MyName » Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:22 pm

There is a way to get better terrain, and that is by getting better data. Unfortunately most data is not compatible with our license... but some might be, so look around.

That again raises my dislike of not having plenty of money. That way I could afford my own mapping flights for this purpose :mrgreen:
MyName
 
Posts: 660
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:57 am

Re: Outerra Engine

Postby ummon » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:01 pm

The best way to use Outerra is to buy Il-2, Lock On, or DCS.

If you want open source, you are stuck with the OSG.
ummon
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:26 pm
Location: California
Version: 2
OS: Mac OS X

Re: Outerra Engine

Postby jack » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:04 pm

I was unaware that this engine would not be GPL. I had thought that since they were using JSBsim code, it would have to be GPL. :roll: Still is fun to dream, though. :wink:
For Military Aircraft, Scenery, and more, visit http://alphashangar.co.nr/

'Retired' from FlightGear as of July 2011. You can contact me via my website if you'd like to pick up any old projects.
User avatar
jack
Retired
 
Posts: 1440
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Location: KLVK
Callsign: Alpha-J, Rescue1
Version: GIT
OS: Mac OS X

Next

Return to Development

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests