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FG 2020.3.9 popups don't work/ won't close.

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Re: FG 2020.3.9 popups don't work/ won't close.

Postby kemosabe » Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:23 am

Hi Hooray,

Where the heck do I find $FG_HOME folder in Mac directory.
Sorry, you are dealing with a newbie.
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Re: FG 2020.3.9 popups don't work/ won't close.

Postby Patrickt » Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:59 am

Hi kemosabe,

Sorry to hear about the strange issues on macOS.

Where the heck do I find $FG_HOME folder in Mac directory.

In short, it should be at the path ~/Library/Application Support/FlightGear, I invite you to consult the Wiki for additional details https://wiki.flightgear.org/$FG_HOME#Mac_OS_X. Please let us know if there is anything unclear in the instructions there, so that they can be updated.

I too run/test FG on macOS 11.4 Big Sur on my ~2014 Mac Mini, I haven't been able to reproduce your issue, but I'll keep it in mind and post here if anything comes to mind.

Thinking out loud: Given your Mac has considerable amount of RAM, perhaps you could install FG in a virtual machine (VM) that runs say Windows or some GNU+Linux distribution (using something like VirtualBox) and forward your flight controls to that VM. This could help you get back to flying whilst we figure out the issue.

Clear skies,

Patrick T.
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Re: FG 2020.3.9 popups don't work/ won't close.

Postby kemosabe » Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:13 am

Patrickt, appreciate your help.

When I have time, I will check out that link, and see if I can implement Hooray's suggestion. For a bunch of reasons, I am reluctant to invest effort to go the VM route.

As I mentioned earlier, last time I launched FG 2020.3.9 (this PM), to my happy surprise, the issues had gone away. Everything worked. I have no idea what caused the issues, and no clue why it disappeared on its own.

No gearhead am I, but the latest theory is that maybe the issue is tied to my mouse/keyboard. But these seem to work fine with other apps, etc.

Perhaps totally unrelated to the issues with MENU windows (not working and not closing), but in the last week I had noticed that when I turned off AP and when I activated "YOUR CONTROL" in Instant Replay, the Cessna 172 would dive out of control. I had mentioned this in another posting. I was not pushing/pulling yoke when this happened.

Thanks again.
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Re: FG 2020.3.9 popups don't work/ won't close.

Postby Hooray » Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:48 am

In the meantime, could you please check if unplugging your keyboard and/or mouse before/after/while starting FlightGear has any effect or not ?

If so, that would suggest there are issues with the USB/HiD input layer (assuming your input perihperals are indeed using USB).

Obviously, if you have the chance to try a different keyboard/mouse, that would be helpful too.

Speaking in general, is FlightGear itself responding to mouse/keyboard events, and what about non-PUI elements (e.g. the canvas map) ?

Also, it might be helpful to share a few screen shots or even a video with us to demonstrate the nature of the problem.
For instance, I am not a Mac user myself, but I am aware that the FlightGear binary for Mac OS has rather specific/different code paths, this includes custom system specific dialogs, as well as a native menu bar.

In other words, it would be good to know whether you're using the native menubar or the built-in one - if in doubt, try switching to see if that makes any difference or not.

Overall, FlightGear's Mac OS support can be said to be excellent, because the primary FlightGear core developer, and the de facto project lead, is developing on Mac OS - however, that also means that a handful of Mac OS specific customizations are in place, that many others don't regularly get to see, let alone use/test properly - because we don't have access to a Mac, and so we don't get to see many of the Apple specific customizations - just like launcher related functionality isn't regularly tested by people not using the launcher :wink:

For the sake of completeness, this is what the default/built-in menubar looks like when using the PUI mode:

https://wiki.flightgear.org/Main_Page
Image

If you are using the native menubar instead, it's unlikely that people without Mac access will help you further with this - which is why it might be best to reach out the developers mailing list and/or file a bug report here: https://sourceforge.net/p/flightgear/codetickets/
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
Thanks & all the best,
Hooray
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Re: FG 2020.3.9 popups don't work/ won't close.

Postby wkitty42 » Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:20 pm

kemosabe wrote in Fri Jul 09, 2021 8:54 pm:Maybe it has something to do with the interface between Big Sur (OS 11.4) and the FG versions that I have been testing.

rootbrain on the mailing list 're: using MacOS 11.4 Big Sur' wrote:Well, that would be quite old. Urge them to install any supplementary software updates, or even update to a later release (free from the apple application store), and the problems should just go away.
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: FG 2020.3.9 popups don't work/ won't close.

Postby Hooray » Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:45 pm

James stated a while ago, that he's developing on/testing for a certain minimum version of OSX, so I'd check that next.
Most of the folks here on the forum don't seem to have access to Macs (?)
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
Thanks & all the best,
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Re: FG 2020.3.9 popups don't work/ won't close.

Postby wkitty42 » Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:58 pm

Hooray wrote in Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:45 pm:James stated a while ago, that he's developing on/testing for a certain minimum version of OSX, so I'd check that next.

i think i remember that... seems there would be an OS version check in place...

Hooray wrote in Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:45 pm:Most of the folks here on the forum don't seem to have access to Macs (?)

this is true...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: FG 2020.3.9 popups don't work/ won't close.

Postby kemosabe » Sat Jul 10, 2021 4:23 pm

Hi all. You folks are amazing. I thought a Mac user like me would be an orphan in the forum. FG Mac support is terrific!

Hooray, I think I understand what you mean "native" and "built in" menu bar. I believe I am using the native (it stretches across the top of the screen where Apple has its menu bar.

I have tried three mouse (plural?) and one keyboard.

I will look for opportunities to take screen shots and send along. However, the only thing they would show is that when I click in the different fields (choose airport), nothing happens. When I click "close" button or the box on upper right in many windows, nothing happens.

As I said earlier, FG 2020.3.9 is working right now. The issues came after the program worked fine for months, and went away a day ago without me having done a thing.

I will re-read all the thoughtful input so far on the forum. I have not yet tried Hooray's thoughts about $FG_HOME folder and have not tried Hooray's idea on non-PUI elements (e.g. the canvas map).

Thanks all.
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Re: FG 2020.3.9 popups don't work/ won't close.

Postby Hooray » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:30 pm

disclaimer: like I said, I don't have access to a Mac, and have never toyed with "native" functionality myself, personally I consider it rather problematic/fragile to implement OS-specific functionality that way, so I don't really subscribe to the idea of having different front-ends that could all be handled by the same technology stack actually, simply because this is adding too much variation/code paths that are not by default leveraged/utilized by many people (testers!)

Hooray, I think I understand what you mean "native" and "built in" menu bar. I believe I am using the native (it stretches across the top of the screen where Apple has its menu bar.


Based on looking at the code, I'd suggest to try explicitly disabling the native menubar by setting /sim/menubar/native=false, this can be accomplished via the launcher or by editing the fgfsrc file, the following command line argument should do the trick:

--prop:/sim/menubar/native=0

This should tell you whether the issue is specific to the native MacOS/FGCocoa menubar, or if it's unrelated.

(internally, this should tell FG to disable native functionality and fall back to the default/built-in menubar implementation provided by the legacy GUI engine called "PUI"): https://wiki.flightgear.org/PUI

PS: For details, see $FG_SRC/GUI/new_gui.cxx +130 (specifically the method called NewGUI::createMenuBarImplementation()
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
Thanks & all the best,
Hooray
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