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[Solved] UFO/Input bug

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Re: UFO bug

Postby Thorsten » Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:13 pm

i'm not sure what I could contribute either.


The usual - a description of the problem and tests (you can safely bet that developers tend to address obvious problems they see quickly, so if you see it in a stable release, chances are no developer has seen it himself).

what would be the point of using the ticketing system in the first place?


I dunno - I've never used it, you decided to use it, so you tell me. :D I bring my stuff up on the mailing list.
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Re: UFO bug

Postby Bjoern » Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:13 pm

If using the Sourceforge ticketing system instead of the mailing list for reporting a bug means that the report won't ever get looked at, so be it.
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Re: UFO bug

Postby wkitty42 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:24 am

no one said that the ticketing system isn't looked at... it is so as to keep things easily at hand... granted, some things take longer to find and fix than others... some get looked at rather quickly depending on where they are brought up... a few of us actually bring some forum reported problems to the mailing list so they are not missed ;)
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: UFO bug

Postby Thorsten » Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:03 am

If using the Sourceforge ticketing system instead of the mailing list for reporting a bug means that the report won't ever get looked at, so be it.


No, the issue is that there is a currently ongoing discussion about something that could be related, which means you could have relevant information - but you opt to file it away because you don't want to configure your mail program - rather than join the discussion.

That's what I find baffling here.
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Re: UFO bug

Postby Bjoern » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:49 pm

As just posted on the ticket's discussion thread, I can not reproduce the initial control deflection on my laptop with an XBox 360 pad (also running Arch Linux). It could therefor be a controller or controller driver specific issue. Will try to reproduce the bahavior on my desktop PC this weekend.


wkitty42 wrote in Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:24 am:no one said that the ticketing system isn't looked at... it is so as to keep things easily at hand... granted, some things take longer to find and fix than others... some get looked at rather quickly depending on where they are brought up... a few of us actually bring some forum reported problems to the mailing list so they are not missed ;)


Some relaying of notifications about relevant discussions between platforms would make most sense.



Thorsten wrote in Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:03 am:No, the issue is that there is a currently ongoing discussion about something that could be related, which means you could have relevant information - but you opt to file it away because you don't want to configure your mail program - rather than join the discussion.

That's what I find baffling here.


Feel free to find it baffling then. All I'm asking is respect for my decision to stay away from what I consider the electronic equivalent of talking in a crowded room.
Should I one day find skills permitting me to understand and contribute to FG's core and therefor contribute to multiple discussions in that room at once, I might reconsider.
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Re: UFO bug

Postby Thorsten » Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:10 pm

Some relaying of notifications about relevant discussions between platforms would make most sense.


Yes - that's what I'm trying to do here - I relay the information that a relevant discussion is on the mailing list to you. I trust you see the problem with your above assumption first hand.
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Re: UFO bug

Postby wlbragg » Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:13 pm

@Bjoern

Just in case your not aware of it, I routinely use the SF interface to monitor the mailing list. I also use email to communicate (outgoing). So you don't have to setup incoming if you don't want the load.
https://sourceforge.net/p/flightgear/mailman/flightgear-devel/?limit=50&style=flat&viewmonth=202001&viewday=23
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Re: UFO bug

Postby wkitty42 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:54 pm

Bjoern wrote in Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:49 pm:As just posted on the ticket's discussion thread, I can not reproduce the initial control deflection on my laptop with an XBox 360 pad (also running Arch Linux).

yes, this behavior appears to only be joystick related and only appears after a system reboot in the confirming cases...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: UFO bug

Postby Bjoern » Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:56 pm

Thorsten wrote in Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:10 pm:Yes - that's what I'm trying to do here - I relay the information that a relevant discussion is on the mailing list to you. I trust you see the problem with your above assumption first hand.


No, I don't. But thank you for notifying me about the ongoing discussion. And thank you for notifying the others on the mailing list.



wlbragg wrote in Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:13 pm:@Bjoern

Just in case your not aware of it, I routinely use the SF interface to monitor the mailing list. I also use email to communicate (outgoing). So you don't have to setup incoming if you don't want the load.
https://sourceforge.net/p/flightgear/mailman/flightgear-devel/?limit=50&style=flat&viewmonth=202001&viewday=23


Looks like a good way to keep track of what's happening. Thanks for the heads-up!

SF states there are three pages worth of replies, but throws a 404 when trying to access page 2. Were there any messages regarding the subject after Scott's from Jan 16th?



wkitty42 wrote in Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:54 pm:yes, this behavior appears to only be joystick related and only appears after a system reboot in the confirming cases...


As per the messages on the list and my experience, I'd say that this is an issue with the T16000M on Linux, but the mention of the Saitek pedals and keyboard+mouse (see Ron's message) also exhibiting this behavior is a bit of a head scratcher.
This also doesn't seem to occur in Windows (could also test it there to confirm).

Could a Nasal script work around this intitalization bug?
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Re: UFO bug

Postby wkitty42 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:10 pm

Bjoern wrote in Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:56 pm:SF states there are three pages worth of replies, but throws a 404 when trying to access page 2. Were there any messages regarding the subject after Scott's from Jan 16th?

not sure how SF displays them... i've always had a flat view and just scrolled down through all of the posts... i've never tried to follow just one thread on the SF web interface...

Bjoern wrote in Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:56 pm:Could a Nasal script work around this intitalization bug?

i think that would doubtful since wiggling the JS (or i think maybe clicking a button on it) straightens it out... but i don't know what nasal might be able to do at that level of interface...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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wkitty42
 
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Callsign: wk42
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Re: UFO bug

Postby Bjoern » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:20 pm

For those not following the discussion on the bugtracker:
I can reproduce the issue on my laptop, which also runs (Arch) Linux as well as by flicking the stick to a nominal (all zero) position, unplugging it and replugging it (producing non-zero values for the axes). The XBox pad is fine on both computers.
As per the discussion on the bug tracker, this seems to be rooted in a kernel module (joydev or evdev).
Additionally, I think it is caused by the powersaving/auto-off feature of some controllers (such as the T16000M and maybe that other Thrustmaster stick reported in the mailing list discussion), which permits detection by event handlers, but does not change output values unless being actively moved.
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Re: UFO bug

Postby wkitty42 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:34 pm

interesting... i do have joydev loaded...

Code: Select all
joydev                 17381  0
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
User avatar
wkitty42
 
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Location: central NC, USA
Callsign: wk42
Version: git next
OS: Kubuntu 14.04.5

Re: UFO/Input bug

Postby Bjoern » Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:12 am

While the other guys are discussing a core level fix, I am trying to get a more mundane workaround running, based on locking all flight control output, e.g:

Code: Select all
var id = setlistener("/devices/status/joysticks/joystick/axis", func(n){ # create listener
    if (n.getValue() == -1) {
      setprop("/controls/flight/aileron", 0);
   }
});


This stops the roll output. Tried this combined with the same snippet for the elevator and rudder axis and that basically fixed the UFO going hog wild after fgfs start.

Obviously needs expansion and wrapping to not interfere with the controls after some input, but I think I can work that out if Nasal lets me.
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Re: UFO/Input bug

Postby wlbragg » Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:28 am

But does this reverse full deflection when it is intentional?
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Re: UFO/Input bug

Postby Bjoern » Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:15 pm

wlbragg wrote in Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:28 am:But does this reverse full deflection when it is intentional?


Don't worry. All I'd try is to alert the user. Probably like this:

1. Script detects anomalous joystick input values
2. Script clamps flight control output, maybe also pauses the sim and throws a pop-up box saying "Please move your controller once"
3. User moves controller -> Anomalous joystick input values are cleared
4. Popup vanishes and the listeners are terminated

It really is only intended to work around this bug after startup.
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