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Uncontrollable rudder on ground, and then intense left lean

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Uncontrollable rudder on ground, and then intense left lean

Postby stevenshaw » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:56 am

Edit by bugman (as a moderator to highlight spam bot activity). Note that I have wrapped the whole message in code tags to show the hidden links and added "xxx" to break the links:

Code: Select all
I can NOT seem to get the plane to go straight when on take-off. I had to fiddle with the rudder like crazy, and when I finally rotate, I have major uncontrolled attitude. Is this common? [url=https://testxxxmyspeed.onl/][color=#333333]Speed Test[/color][/url] [url=https://scrabbxxxlewordfinder.vip/][color=#333333]Scrabble Word Finder[/color][/url] [url=https://solitairxxxe.onl/][color=#333333]Solitaire[/color][/url]


I'm using the keyboard, so obviously not the ideal solution....


This looks like:

I can NOT seem to get the plane to go straight when on take-off. I had to fiddle with the rudder like crazy, and when I finally rotate, I have major uncontrolled attitude. Is this common? Speed Test Scrabble Word Finder Solitaire


I'm using the keyboard, so obviously not the ideal solution....
Last edited by stevenshaw on Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Uncontrollable rudder on ground, and then intense left l

Postby Thorsten » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:10 am

The fact that the plane reacts asymmetrically is quite real (assuming we are talking about a single prop plane) and keyboard doesn't provide you the control to manage this properly.

If you're set on flying with the keyboard, try a jet or a twin prop plane, they have symmetric thrust.
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Re: Uncontrollable rudder on ground, and then intense left l

Postby wkitty42 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:58 pm

something else that keyboard flyers may have a problem with is the auto-coordinated rudder and ailerons... disable that and some things are easier (steering on the ground) but of course now some things like turning in the air will be harder since you have to work the controls for both...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Uncontrollable rudder on ground, and then intense left l

Postby tdammers » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:23 pm

A tendency to yaw and bank at high attitude and high power setting is normal in prop aircraft (even most twins, except for models with counter-rotating props like the Seneca II); the effects playing a role here are:

- "P factor", a tendency of a propeller to displace its center of thrust when pitched away from the airflow axis, which causes prop blades changing AOA (and thus thrust and drag) between moving up and moving down. The main result is a yawing tendency.
- "Prop wash", the result of the propeller-induced vortex hitting the wings and empennage, causing different airflows between the left and right sides of the aircraft. This can cause both yawing and banking, and may also influence elevator authority.
- "Torque effect", the result of the propeller blades pushing against the air. In a clockwise rotating prop, this causes a tendency to bank left.
- "Adverse yaw"; this isn't caused by the propeller directly, but is a general tendency of an aircraft to respond to a banking movement with yawing in the opposite direction (which is why you should input some rudder when entering a turn).

Some FG aircraft models (including the default C172P) are notorious for exaggerating some of these effects though, especially P factor.

And, yes, do yourself a favor and get a joystick. Even a fairly cheap one will make a huge difference.
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Re: Uncontrollable rudder on ground, and then intense left l

Postby bugman » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:44 pm

Watch out for spam bots! The current generation copy text from old posts and then add links. If the text includes strange words, it might be a bot.

Regards,
Edward
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Re: Uncontrollable rudder on ground, and then intense left l

Postby Icecode GL » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:25 pm

They are getting smarter!
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Re: Uncontrollable rudder on ground, and then intense left l

Postby Isaak » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:32 am

Wow, thanks for finding that out, Edward!
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Re: Uncontrollable rudder on ground, and then intense left l

Postby Octal450 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:07 am

The funny thing is, originally those words weren't there. They come back and edit them... :(

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Waste of time. Goodbye forever.
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Re: Uncontrollable rudder on ground, and then intense left l

Postby bugman » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:58 am

It was reported by a user, but I forgot who. Vigilance by all is the only way to combat these things. This tactic used by these automated bot nets, of copying partial text from old posts and adding links later, has been used for 1-2 years now.

We normally catch them before the link insertion edit and ban the bot. Unlike this case, it is more obvious as FlightGear posts date quickly and the poster appears to be from the distant past. Just copy some of the text and search for it. If you find a match to an old post, click on the "!" button above the post to report it, and include the link to the matching post.

Cheers,
Edward
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Re: Uncontrollable rudder on ground, and then intense left l

Postby Alex H » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:58 am

bugman wrote in Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:58 am:It was reported by a user, but I forgot who.


That would be me :) .

The thing I don't get is why have the text hiding the link.

I suspected it was a link by the stupid wording, but to hide it is a bit pointless?

No-one is going to try and click it if it's not obvious.

Any ideas?
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Re: Uncontrollable rudder on ground, and then intense left l

Postby bugman » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:09 am

Simply so that forum users are less likely to tag the post as spam. The bot net controllers don't want their posts nuked and their "valuable links" lost.

Regards,
Edward
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Re: Uncontrollable rudder on ground, and then intense left l

Postby Isaak » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:50 pm

Also, this increases the chance you accidentally click on it, especially when using a smartphone (what I frequently do), I have the bad habit of selecting text I read so clicking instead of selecting will occur.
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Re: Uncontrollable rudder on ground, and then intense left l

Postby wkitty42 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:30 pm

the worst part is if you read new posts only you miss on the old ones that have been edited and changed... it is definitely one of their tactics and their bots maintain it all on their end in a database the operator manages... we set moderation on all new posts... it keeps the new posters spam from being seen like this... we can easily check the post before approving it... if it is spam from the outset, we simply delete the user account and any other posts they made... the other posts because they are also in moderation...

we found doing moderation like this as well as cleaning up the accounts awaiting confirmation list cuts down on a lot of bots... once they figure out they're not getting in, they go elsewhere because the pickins' are plentiful and easy... it took a little while to take out the trash but things are better over there than they were at one time... at least on the spambot front ;)
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Uncontrollable rudder on ground, and then intense left l

Postby bugman » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:19 pm

It looks like this is possible with the "Enable queued posts" phpBB setting. This would require more moderator man/woman power to handle though.

Regards,
Edward
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Re: Uncontrollable rudder on ground, and then intense left l

Postby wlbragg » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:51 pm

Simply so that forum users are less likely to tag the post as spam. The bot net controllers don't want their posts nuked and their "valuable links" lost.


Even when hidden the link may be used as a traffic stat by search engines. I remember in the day when I was learning about search engine placement algorithms that the amount of links to the page was a factor in the placement position on the search results.
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