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A poll for JAFVA's in LEBL

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Would you be interested in Trying this?

Poll ended at Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:41 pm

YES
3
60%
No
1
20%
Depends on how thing go on SAT
1
20%
 
Total votes : 5

Re: A poll for JAFVA's in LEBL

Postby IAHM-COL » Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:25 am

I'm doing trying it

IAHM-COL wrote in Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:17 am:
  • Pilot: IH-COL
  • Callsign: HK-424F
  • Airline: JAFVA
  • Flight: 4245
  • Aircraft: C750
  • Cruising Altitude: FL310
  • Cruising Speed: 0.77Ma
  • Departing: LEBL
  • Arriving: EHLE
  • Duration: 2h25min
  • Starting Position: Terminal 1
  • Route: OKABI UN861 FISTO UY156 ADABI UN858 VANAD UN874 VEKIN UN873 HELEN
  • SID:OKABI as required
  • STAR: HELEN as required
  • APP: NDB or VFR
  • Scheduled: T.B.D at Pilot's schedule


We'll... with a few votes in favor of "it depends how things go sat", the situation left on YES I'm trying to land the citation in Lelystad.

Guys, wish me luck,
and may the odds be ever in my favor.

IHCOL

[for the curious souls, I am taking off LEBL at around 15:00 and should be crashing Lelystad at around 17:05]
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Re: A poll for JAFVA's in LEBL

Postby IAHM-COL » Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:31 pm

:evil:
Computer KRAP or God's will... whatever
I am not going to be completing my flight plan to EHLE today :S

After I took off the Citation X to Lelystad, computer crashed on the middle of my way somewhere above France.
Not landing attempt possible


Tears.....

IHCOL
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Re: A poll for JAFVA's in LEBL

Postby Omega » Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:44 pm

So I win the bet? lol
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Re: A poll for JAFVA's in LEBL

Postby MountainFlyerN22 » Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:54 pm

Omega wrote in Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:44 pm:So I win the bet? lol


The bet was for the landing not if the computer made it.
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Re: A poll for JAFVA's in LEBL

Postby IAHM-COL » Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:44 pm

SUCCESFUL ARRRIVAL IH-COL TO EHLE

Since there was volunteers to take over LEBC, I had a chance to try the landing to Lelystand once again. This time the computer behaved.

Thanks Omega for the Challenge and the service in EHAA :D


IAHM-COL wrote in Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:32 pm:JAFVA Fligths 85-86 completed


    ...
  • HK-424F | IH-COL | C750 | LEBL-EHLE | [url]JAFVA87 MAP[/url]


Some pieces of evidence:

EHAA_CT cleared me for a full NDB approach RWY23, and I followed as charted (with hold):
NDB/DME 23

Tracker: http://mpserver15.flightgear.org/module ... ID=5907946
Image
Image
Image

Movie:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4krviqd3oglQ3hmX0Y1MnhiQlU/view?usp=sharing

Happy Smile
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Re: A poll for JAFVA's in LEBL

Postby legoboyvdlp » Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:08 pm

That wwas me you saw :D Good job!
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Re: A poll for JAFVA's in LEBL

Postby Omega » Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:56 am


Nice turn off on the grass, Captain Happy.
When I saw that you were turning to execute the hold, I was about to tell you something but I held off in fear that you were going to botch the rest of the approach.
That's professional ATC decision making right there. Lol.

I give you credit, because that turn inbound was on point. It's not as easy as it looks to get the bank angle and speed right, and this is coming from someone who has screwed up this kind of approach before.
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Re: A poll for JAFVA's in LEBL

Postby MountainFlyerN22 » Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:18 am

Good for you.Look like you didn't even use all of runway.
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Re: A poll for JAFVA's in LEBL

Postby Omega » Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:26 am

That's because he touched down at a very low speed and on the threshold (which wouldn't be the best thing to do in real life).
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Re: A poll for JAFVA's in LEBL

Postby MountainFlyerN22 » Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:30 am

Yes,but that's the way you land short.
(but don't do like me and stall onto the threshold with a hard slam)
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Re: A poll for JAFVA's in LEBL

Postby IAHM-COL » Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:31 am

:D
Thanks guys.

Well for those that did not know, I didnt have lots of runway to spare.
I understand Lelystad is a small GA airport in the Netherlands. It has an asphalt 4000ft runway. [One that does not expect Jet traffic]

That mean I didn't have lots of strip to spare, besides following that NDB chart with the outbound turn. Saying again, NDB, which means not directional VOR. I used the DME from PAM for the turn decision as charted too, and kept altitude at around 2000. But definitely keeping an eye of the KIAS was large proportion of the walk-away landing there. So I went slow, maybe too much (!?)....

And since I was expecting things to go bad, I shot for the threshold. Giving myself a couple feet more....

Things weren't bad thou, and the brakes were applied steadily once rolling on the ground and I could exit on the intersection. (sorry about your grass EHAA).

Keep in mind the reported Citation X landing distance is (citing wiki) at 3600 ft, which means still in real life Lelystad can be used to put one of these babies down (one of my fav. aircraft).

@Lego: Note that a B777 reported landing distance is 5600, which exceeds your available run. I discourage you to try this fun on the triple seven beauty. Not a realistic thing to do. Shoot for a jet that at least theoretically should be able to do it, luckily one with good FDM in FG as well. It is a lot of fun :D (breaking nerves type). And enjoy Omega's Scheduled service. It's really prime quality in FG.

IH-COL
Last edited by IAHM-COL on Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:50 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: A poll for JAFVA's in LEBL

Postby IAHM-COL » Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:37 am

Omega wrote in Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:56 am:When I saw that you were turning to execute the hold, I was about to tell you something but I held off in fear that you were going to botch the rest of the approach.
That's professional ATC decision making right there. Lol..


Good choice there Omega.
I didnt wanted to be hearing more transmissions than those necessary. I was pilot in distress. :?

Even when you reclaimed your "report 2 nm off" readback I got a bit spikey. You asked me the "report 2nm off" when I was at 4. I found better wait a minute for calling the "@ 2 miles" than start playing with my PTT button rite that moment. When you asked for the read back I was already short of those 2nm.

So back in topic, if you tell me on that moment that I was not expected to maintain the charted hold, I would probably hurry to correct and miss the whole outbound. It was not beneficial there. I took the hold, as I mentioned before out of a misinterpretation of what the "Note 2" in the chart meant, The one that said something in the lines that the pilot is expected to proceed on the charted turn in its entirety. I thought, mmm hold is required, instead of correctly thinking, mmm, my ATC is not gonna call my turn. (Although I also got that from note 2). In essence I thought it meant, the pilot will do all, i) the hold, ii) the outbound and iii) the inbound without expecting additional ATC interference, thus doing the whole charted approach. And so I did.

Lesson learnt. Next time, I may just skip the hold.
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Re: A poll for JAFVA's in LEBL

Postby legoboyvdlp » Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:02 pm

If a 777/707 can land at Saba (It is possible, I have video proof!) it can land here :P Though I do see what you mean.
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Re: A poll for JAFVA's in LEBL

Postby IAHM-COL » Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:35 pm

It is beyond only the technical possibilities Lego. The main point is that if you show up to Omega services for a B77x and request full stop on EHLE, it is his RESPONSABILITY to deny the runway to you. It is not an active runway for a type of plane.

As soon as Omega exercises such responsibility, it is disrespectful of you to persist into a non-authorized/yet controlled Runway and crash there, or even succeed for a full stop.

In real life, such scenery will open a legal nightmare to the maneuvering pilot.

but if you bring a jet with a stop length within boundaries of the strip, Omega can deny or accept your landing. And he may be happy to let you get a try as he did with me.

As anecdotical. When I was in final, Omega requested me to report 2nm out. I guess he wanted to verify if I had a good landing attitude before giving me the last good to touch down. When I reported "2nm out, 4 2 4 Foxtrot", his landing clearance, instead of sounding like "Clear to land RWY 23", sounded more like this: "RWY 23, Land at your discretion 4 2 4 Foxtrot". That was cool.
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it? Probably not, because if they don’t recognise their freedoms, they’ll let their freedoms fall
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Re: A poll for JAFVA's in LEBL

Postby Omega » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:04 pm

IAHM-COL wrote:As anecdotical. When I was in final, Omega requested me to report 2nm out. I guess he wanted to verify if I had a good landing attitude before giving me the last good to touch down. When I reported "2nm out, 4 2 4 Foxtrot", his landing clearance, instead of sounding like "Clear to land RWY 23", sounded more like this: "RWY 23, Land at your discretion 4 2 4 Foxtrot". That was cool.

Lelystad only has an AFIS (Airport Flight Information Service) and not a control tower. The AFIS is not a control position, therefore it can't provide landing and take off clearances.
You were not established on a VFR arrival or VFR circuit, so I needed a simple way to know your position, hence the "report 2 mile final".

All of the AFIS phraseology that I used is not applicable in real life Lelystad (or any other Dutch airport), as it depends on local regulations.
As an example, in real life Dutch AFIS positions, you will just get wind and traffic advisories when you are on final.
To make it simpler in a simulated environment, I used the phrase "landing at your discretion". When in real life, you wouldn't get that because it is implied.
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