Board index FlightGear Multiplayer events Virtual airlines

vATO's restructuring

Discussion relating to virtual airlines.

Re: vATO's restructuring

Postby IAHM-COL » Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:05 pm

vATO is an organization that also focuses on ATCs

@ALL
Just remember... if you are interested in becoming part of an organization aiming to improve ATC skills on a realistic level, that can be an asset for the whole FG community, let me know.

Our program will be a practical approach with one -on - one Instruction that follows closely the model exposed above for pilot training :)

IHCOL
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it? Probably not, because if they don’t recognise their freedoms, they’ll let their freedoms fall
User avatar
IAHM-COL
Retired
 
Posts: 4064
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:40 pm
Location: Homey, NV (KXTA) - U.S.A
Callsign: HK-424D or ICAO4243
Version: 3.7-git
OS: Linux

Re: vATO's restructuring

Postby Rick Ace » Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:13 am

omega95 wrote in Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:04 pm:Very true, I had to help a pilot make a safe landing after his AP malfunctioned earlier today - pilots do need training on non-GPS IFR navigation especially considering a lot of the younger pilots at merlion (and FG, I suppose?) intend of becoming pilots in the real world.

That sounds like an unconventional but very interesting story. :P
Rick Ace
 
Posts: 1023
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 6:02 pm
Location: New York City
Callsign: rickace
Version: 2.6.0
OS: Vista

Re: vATO's restructuring

Postby Jabberwocky » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:20 am

I am older, so no way, I will ever become a real life pilot :shock:
However, the original idea was, if I understand more about flying, I may don't have to spend real life flights clawed in my armrests anymore, so the idea of spreading knowledge kind of fits my weird agenda.
Jabberwocky
Retired
 
Posts: 1319
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:36 pm
Callsign: JWOCKY
Version: 3.0.0
OS: Ubuntu 14.04

Re: vATO's restructuring

Postby IAHM-COL » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:47 am

Jabberwocky wrote in Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:20 am:I am older, so no way, I will ever become a real life pilot :shock:
However, the original idea was, if I understand more about flying, I may don't have to spend real life flights clawed in my armrests anymore, so the idea of spreading knowledge kind of fits my weird agenda.

Sounds like me. I am probably not that old, but I doubt I will ever pull the cash to go for the real deal.
But I like learning from others, as well as pass the few I know... so it fits my agenda

I will be happy to hear you are in. (keep in mind you will need a microphone working WAAAY later... and it is of no use for a good amount of begin time... and about time, you complete the exercise at your schedule).... Just let me know, and either Rick or I could get a pilot in our trainee roster :P

I have already completed the first exercise myself... thus I want to also have the vATO certificates :P
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it? Probably not, because if they don’t recognise their freedoms, they’ll let their freedoms fall
User avatar
IAHM-COL
Retired
 
Posts: 4064
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:40 pm
Location: Homey, NV (KXTA) - U.S.A
Callsign: HK-424D or ICAO4243
Version: 3.7-git
OS: Linux

Re: vATO's restructuring

Postby Jabberwocky » Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:45 pm

Shhh, what do you know ... I brought FGCom to work, speaker and microphone. Actually headset. Sounds strange and hollow and I am most of the time on wring frequencies ... but it is progress.
Jabberwocky
Retired
 
Posts: 1319
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:36 pm
Callsign: JWOCKY
Version: 3.0.0
OS: Ubuntu 14.04

Re: vATO's restructuring

Postby IAHM-COL » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:45 am

vATO Callsign Update

The main objective to impose a callsign within vATO is not to be a hostility.
There are important objectives.

1. Standardize vATO pilots to use REALISTIC callsigns and registrations.
2. Use the callsign as a method to ALSO indicate directly rank

Realistic callsigns make much more realistic, simulated, and fun ATC events, as well.

So, I had been doing my homework, checking how this should go.

There are TWO levels within the academy. The first level trains the pilots from the basics to Instrument Rating.
Pilots will be using GA aircraft, and GA registrations for callsigns.
The registrations Worldwide are indicated here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_r ... d_patterns.
For US they are indicated here:
http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificate ... _registry/

for a pilot in US, the callsign is N + Three digits + two letters.http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificate ... _registry/
And as in our last method, the last letter will be E, D, C, B, or A depending on the pilot level

A vATO pilot representing US, could have a registration (callsign) like this (Using this for valid vATO practices and hour logging)
N584TE -> N584TD -> N584TC -> N584TB -> N584TA

The callsign(s) are determined with the instructor before starting the academy training and exercises.

Licenses: On this first level, there is Student Pilot License (SPL, levels E, D and C), Private Pilot License (PPL, level B), and Instrument Rating License (IRL, level A)

The Level Two is for pilots already IRL and having accumulated other requirements (hours and trained pilots)
Then it can become

commercial pilot license CPL, levels 4 and 3
and finally Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) levels, 2 (second officer), 1(first officer) and 0 (captain)

The callsigns for vATO valid flight will follow ICAO1234 codes (four numbers)
example
AAL5864 for a CPL level 4 (entry)
UAL8543 for a CPL level 3
DLH2452 for an ATP second officer
AVA2151 for an ATP first officer
BAW2520 for an ATP captain
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it? Probably not, because if they don’t recognise their freedoms, they’ll let their freedoms fall
User avatar
IAHM-COL
Retired
 
Posts: 4064
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:40 pm
Location: Homey, NV (KXTA) - U.S.A
Callsign: HK-424D or ICAO4243
Version: 3.7-git
OS: Linux

Re: vATO's restructuring

Postby omega95 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:57 am

This might interest you in making a more realistic flight training program - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_licensing_and_certification#Private_pilot
Merlion Virtual Airlines - the experience of a flight time...
Get high quality aircraft, airports, video tutorials or development tools from my hangar.
omega95
 
Posts: 1223
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:59 am
Location: -unknown-
Callsign: MIA0001, OM-EGA
IRC name: omega95
Version: 2.12 git
OS: Ubuntu 13.04

Re: vATO's restructuring

Postby bigstones » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:19 am

On the wiki there is a bunch of articles of a former FG Flight Academy: http://wiki.flightgear.org/Category:Fli ... ht_Academy
Most of them seem to be exercises, but also created and forgotten.
bigstones
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:09 pm
Location: Italy
Callsign: I-NOOB
OS: Debian testing

Re: vATO's restructuring

Postby IAHM-COL » Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:41 pm

Nice resource bigstones :D
I am building something similar, that I call exercises or practical training.
A bit more comprehensive, thou.
It begins with choosing proper taxiing, to emergency procedures. Including patterns, VFR crossscountry, Instrument Flight, navigation, and pilot 2 pilot, pilot 2 ATC communication.
The program is just being created as the "pilot" pilots go, so these resources are magnificent.

@omega
Thanks omega. I am using that as a reference for the levels, as well as hour requirements within vATO. Again, as I told you before, the main weakness of our program is that no instructor is RL certified here. But we try to read and inform ourselves around. And with some luck a real life certified pilot in FG (like you or other) can join to leave valuable lessons.

Thanks for the comments guys! :D
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it? Probably not, because if they don’t recognise their freedoms, they’ll let their freedoms fall
User avatar
IAHM-COL
Retired
 
Posts: 4064
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:40 pm
Location: Homey, NV (KXTA) - U.S.A
Callsign: HK-424D or ICAO4243
Version: 3.7-git
OS: Linux

Re: vATO's restructuring

Postby Jabberwocky » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:07 pm

Okay ... now for a simple soul like me ...

- if I would enroll, I would get a callsign like what?
- and under this callsign, I can only fly what is appropriate at me training level while I can otherwise do what I want as JWOCKY?

J.
Jabberwocky
Retired
 
Posts: 1319
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:36 pm
Callsign: JWOCKY
Version: 3.0.0
OS: Ubuntu 14.04

Re: vATO's restructuring

Postby IAHM-COL » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:32 pm

If you were to register you will have a vATO call sign to be used for vATO flying. Anything you will report to your instructor for training, exercises or hours log.
vATO simulates an academy of flight and the proposed flights could be as simple as a VFR pattern (specially at the beginning), and you Will not be able to fly a big bird on vATO until you are "licensed" to do so.

We do not prevent you to fly as much as you want as jwocky on a 747 from US to Africa. We prevent you to get those as valid vATO hours. That's all. It's up to you on distributing your time to accomplish both goals.

Now your direct question. What call sign would be for you?. Would you represent Germany, US, or other country?

For a practical demonstration I am assuming you decided Germany.
Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_r ... d_patterns
we can see germany registration rules:

D-EAAA to D-EZZZ for single engine aircraft up to 2t MTOW
That is where the training aircraft (c172p) fits. so we have fixed
D-E
the last character is for the level E->A
D-E**L

we have 2 characters for choice, and you will select this with your instructor. If I were him, I will suggest you using JW (from JWocky)
so the GA callsign at your begin will look like [Here you could say you preffer D-EJCE from JwoCky. That'll be allrigth)
D-EJWE > D-EJWD > D-EJWC > D-EJWB > D-EJWA

[Important, your callsign has a 3digit representation as well, here being JWO in a phone pad: 596. This number will apply to you when on vATO CPL and ATP levels. Example, eventually you may be DLH5962. This callsign tells, you are flying a Lufthansa route and your level is 2, or second officer]

Notice if while you have a level that allows you to use a double prop (seneca II or other similar plane), you will need to adapt your registration to comply:

D-GAAA to D-GZZZ for multi-engine aircraft up to 2t MTOW

So you will be

D-GJWC ,for example (that will be Jwocky flying a two prop 2tMTOW, at level Charlie)

Proper registration would be a must for vATO flying.
IH-COL


PS: I would be delighted to one day seeing you complete your 747 (more than 20T MTOW) Non-Airline route KPHX to HUEN, and using your proper vATO callsign: D-AJWA. Those are good amount of hours. And you could do that on a CPL level 3.
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it? Probably not, because if they don’t recognise their freedoms, they’ll let their freedoms fall
User avatar
IAHM-COL
Retired
 
Posts: 4064
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:40 pm
Location: Homey, NV (KXTA) - U.S.A
Callsign: HK-424D or ICAO4243
Version: 3.7-git
OS: Linux

Re: vATO's restructuring

Postby IAHM-COL » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:25 pm

@JWOCKY

Notice bigstones callsign above.
He represents Italy, and he flies as I-NOOB.
If he were to join vATO, most likely he will end up doing a career like this:
I-NOOE I-NOOD I-NOOC I-NOOB I-NOOA :D

And if Naru said he wanted to represent Slovakia, he may look like this:
OM-EGE OM-EGD OM-EGC OM-EGB OM-EGA :shock:

what if JWOCKY decides to represent Jordan?
He could be

JY-WCKE JY-WCKD JY-WCKC JY-WCKB and finally JY-WCKA

I think that could be phonetically close :D
(althoug it reads)
commander Juliet Yankee whiskey charlie kilo bravo ..... [I assume he is on the Aero Comander here]
(to become, after identification)
Comander Kilo bravo.... :mrgreen:
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it? Probably not, because if they don’t recognise their freedoms, they’ll let their freedoms fall
User avatar
IAHM-COL
Retired
 
Posts: 4064
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:40 pm
Location: Homey, NV (KXTA) - U.S.A
Callsign: HK-424D or ICAO4243
Version: 3.7-git
OS: Linux

Re: vATO's restructuring

Postby Jabberwocky » Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:32 pm

Oookay ... I put a lot of work into becoming an American legally, so it would be the US, I try to represent. Oh my ... and Cessna? Really? Haven't touched her in eternities.
Jabberwocky
Retired
 
Posts: 1319
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:36 pm
Callsign: JWOCKY
Version: 3.0.0
OS: Ubuntu 14.04

Re: vATO's restructuring

Postby IAHM-COL » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:36 pm

well yes. It is important to get a "typical" plane for initial steps. Everything goes same, specially all those V-speeds http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_speeds
That can go widly if everyone is "training" those first steps in who-knows-what.
Now for your relief, C172 is the force-de tour on E (taxiing), and D (patterns), but the limitation start relieves on C (VFR cross countries), when other planes can be used, as much as they are single engine props. On Charlie the seneca II is also introduced as a tour-de-force.
By B level (PPL) the pilot can very much use a lot of GA planes, but for exercises, the plane he/she chooses have to be fully equiped with IFR-rate instruments (again kinda like the C172P, but others are also available). So, it very much depends on your level.

Oookay ... I put a lot of work into becoming an American legally, so it would be the US, I try to represent.

Does this mean you are up to becoming vATO's N596CE? (phone pad 5=J 9=W 6=O). If so, let me ask rickace if he want to take you as instructor :)
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it? Probably not, because if they don’t recognise their freedoms, they’ll let their freedoms fall
User avatar
IAHM-COL
Retired
 
Posts: 4064
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:40 pm
Location: Homey, NV (KXTA) - U.S.A
Callsign: HK-424D or ICAO4243
Version: 3.7-git
OS: Linux

Re: vATO's restructuring

Postby Jabberwocky » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:00 pm

I got FGCom to work as I said, still working on mumble. No joystick, lousy graphics, clumsy fingers ... but I guess, I will give it a try as trainee guinea pig ;-)
Jabberwocky
Retired
 
Posts: 1319
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:36 pm
Callsign: JWOCKY
Version: 3.0.0
OS: Ubuntu 14.04

PreviousNext

Return to Virtual airlines

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest