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How to add an simple placard to an existing panel?

Discussion about creating 2d and 3d cockpits.

Re: How to add an simple placard to an existing panel?

Postby wkitty42 » Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:43 pm

helijah wrote in Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:01 pm:Moreover you will notice that I did not judge their work contrary to the very unobjective judgment of D-ECHO.
I Just will notice that their files are unreadable and absolutely not organized. What more can I say. Users will judge.

it is more like their files are not organized like you would organize them... i find them to be readable and organized in a decent manner :shrug:
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"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: How to add an simple placard to an existing panel?

Postby Thorsten » Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:49 pm

It is the failure to check what exists before committing on FGAddon that is important.


Yes, commit mistakes shouldn't happen. And yes - they happen anyway. At some point past you yourself erased someone else's work by not checking 'what exists' and just copying your private tree on top of the repository.

it could be fixed - it's in the nature of repositories.

But one would still expect that from that experience you would understand that sometimes mistakes happen anyway.
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Re: How to add an simple placard to an existing panel?

Postby D-ECHO » Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:06 pm

Thorsten: thank you
helijah: I dont have any more words. But at least you dont claim anymore that I used your 3d, which I didnt. (Or anything from you)
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Re: How to add an simple placard to an existing panel?

Postby Hooray » Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:08 pm

helijah wrote in Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:01 pm:Hooray as I said, the problem of the authors' annotations is not the most serious problem here.
It is the failure to check what exists before committing on FGAddon that is important.
Creating a duplicate means that FG can sometimes get mixed up in the paths and make both vehicles unusable.


Well, I don't know, but I could imagine myself making the same mistake - now that you mention it, it all makes sense, but I'd still consider it primarily a structural/organizational issue, i.e. one that should ideally be addressed at the commit/repository-level (think pre-commit hooks).

As far as I remember, bugman is pretty familiar with the fgdata/git side of things, so he would be in a better position to judge if that'd be feasible or not - but other than that, let's keep in mind that we also support 3rd party hangars/repositories. As a matter of fact, I might have created aircraft named identically to yours, possibly years ahead of you - you just might not be aware of it, so I guess this is much more about policies and establishing conventions ("best practices"), and first of all: documenting such things.

I believe a number of contributors like Gijs and James have previously talked about some kind of dedicated "developer mode" where aircraft could be reviewed in a scripted/semi-automated fashion to spot some of the more common pitfalls (think missing files, typos, case sensitivity in file names etc) - in my eyes, such a tool should also check whether there are any namespace conflicts introduced or not.

git pre-commit hooks would only be the final frontier here, but having a dedicated ./fgfs --check-aircraft mode where an aircraft directory would be traversed to find common issues, would not seem that far-fetched, and it's been repeatedly discussed in the community before.

Furthermore, such a tool could become a great asset when reviewing new/updated regressions, i.e. helping reviewers spot common mistakes -while also providing a way to do regression testing

I don't think it helps to do any name calling here, because the issue is indeed a structural one - we're lacking the equivalent of a UUID/GUID mechanism (currently), so having a proper mechanism in place would seem like a good idea ?
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Re: How to add an simple placard to an existing panel?

Postby Maerchenprinz » Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:23 pm

Hi!

Maybe we should switch back to topic (unless we want to have a second "Super Tuesday" here on FG! :D )

@Willy
The video ludomotico posted (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLEpjSFHl4o is very good, though it shows many sophisticated methods you would not need at all when you just want to add a simple placard.
Basically, it's all about:
1. Get a 3D-modelling program, like
- Blender; elaborate, free, all OS, you will need the AC3D importer for Blender, as .ac is the "native" FG format
- AC3D; easy, but not free (99Dollari!)
- SketchUp; free, I don't know much more about it, sorry!
- ...
Looking at the ASK model, no XML editing is needed (or would make sense) in this case, so
2. In your favorite new 3D-modelling program, open (or import) the file ASK21/Models/Interior/engconsole.ac

3. Add a new Surface to this model, size of your placard of course, and apply to this new object simply your .png and Map it;
there's no need to create a new texture, or have a complex UV-mapping as explained in the video!

4. Turn and position that new placard to where it belongs, and Save file

5. Have a coffee and and admire your work in FG 8)

Unfortunately, the model engconsole.ac is a bit messed up; I can offer to "repair" it, as "repairing" sometimes can be a pain in the, especially for beginners...

Ciao,

Adrian
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Re: How to add an simple placard to an existing panel?

Postby D-ECHO » Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:30 pm

@Maerchenprinz, the original topic is from 2018 and already dealt with since two years iirc, helijah only warmed up an old thread.
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Re: How to add an simple placard to an existing panel?

Postby Maerchenprinz » Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:39 pm

AARRGHH!

@D-ECHO: Thanks, that happens, when I only look at the date of the last post...
@everyone: So no abusal of this topic anymore, go on with your discussion :wink:
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Re: How to add an simple placard to an existing panel?

Postby helijah » Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:23 pm

D-ECHO wrote in Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:06 pm:Thorsten: thank you
helijah: I dont have any more words. But at least you dont claim anymore that I used your 3d, which I didnt. (Or anything from you)


As always you mix everything up with total bad faith. I updated one of MY models when no one told me that a change had taken place. I didn't encroach on another's model by changing my files. And once I was made aware of this I did everything I could to correct it.
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Re: How to add an simple placard to an existing panel?

Postby Thorsten » Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:11 pm

As always you mix everything up with total bad faith. I updated one of MY models when no one told me that a change had taken place. I didn't encroach on another's model by changing my files. And once I was made aware of this I did everything I could to correct it.


Well, if you do something wrong, it's (of course) a honest mistake - if someone else makes a mistake, it's (of course) his deliberate intention and he's disrespectful.

That's hypocrisy for you.

If you claim that 'someone should have told you' of a change and didn't check for it yourself and that's okay, you can't really ask that others do thorough checking rather than wait for being told by someone, no?

D-ECHO wasn't told either, so it happened, by your own standards that's perfectly fine.

So just treat D-ECHO as you wanted to be treated yourself when you made a mistake, and we can all continue peacefully.
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Re: How to add an simple placard to an existing panel?

Postby helijah » Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:29 pm

Thorsten wrote in Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:11 pm:If you claim that 'someone should have told you' of a change and didn't check for it yourself and that's okay, you can't really ask that others do thorough checking rather than wait for being told by someone, no?


As always you twist things around to always be right.

What I'm saying is simple:

I've been maintaining my airplanes since 2006 and I've never stopped. The first rule on FG (recalled by others here) is to contact the authors/maintainers before making changes. It's called respect of the rules. As always instead of being a mediator you prefer to throw oil on the fire to make it burn harder.

Yes I erased by mistake and I asked for forgiveness and did what was necessary to correct that. And yes I am at fault for that mistake. But it wouldn't have happened if the changes had been notified to me before I made them on FGAddon. And you know that very well. With the exception of JSBSim, I always accepted improvements on my models by indicating the contributors in my files and on my site.

And again, I have already accepted with JSBSim changes but they were so ridiculous and unusable that they disappeared without my intervention. And that's fine.

I'm only interested in one thing. The users. I'm listening to them, I'm at their service. I don't work on my planes for my little person. I've got a lot of other things to do for myself. The only thing that is important is the users and the respect that we owe them because without them FG would not exist. You, me are replaceable, but not them.
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Re: How to add an simple placard to an existing panel?

Postby Thorsten » Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:18 am

The first rule on FG (recalled by others here) is to contact the authors/maintainers before making changes. It's called respect of the rules.


You were pretty much absent for more than a year, did not participate in any discussion on the list, did not respond for months (!) to several attempts to contact you - if you were maintaining the aircraft during that time, you somehow forget to notify people of it.

Oh - and the email address we had from you was not working.

The rule is also that if the author does not respond to contact attempts within a reasonable timeframe, someone else can do maintenance. So I'd kindly ask you to respect the rules and stop complaining that this actually happened.

You, me are replaceable, but not them.


Seriously? You consider yourself so irreplacable, you go ballistic if someone adds even a tiny modification to your craft.
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Re: How to add an simple placard to an existing panel?

Postby Christi0012 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:32 pm

Hi Helijah,
have you meanwhile found out how to start the engine?

Regards
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