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A330-200 with Canvas and other features

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Re: A330-200 with Canvas and other features

Postby OE-PH1 » Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:40 pm

Gijs wrote in Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:03 am:Please note that James has done a lot of work recently on the route manager, to support these different kind of waypoints, turn prediction etc. I don't know whether the A330 makes use of it (I remember some of the Airbuses using a Nasal system), but if it does it should have that working in 3.4.


I just downloaded v3.4 and I can confirm that there are now different kind of waypoints are supported.
In my procedures.xml it now makes a difference between fly-by and fly-over.

Question 1: Can I have these attributes also in my routes.xml? How would be the correct format?
Question 2: In new version there is a problem with the first and last waypoint of a route: after passing last waypoint of a SID the plane turns not to the next waypoint which is the first waypoint of a route. I have to set this waypoint manually again. And then, after last waypoint of a route there is eiter a waypoint somewhere on southpole, or the plane turns directly to destination airport. It's not possible to correct this manually, also the plane won't follow a new route (for example a STAR or waypoints advised by ATC). So after last waypoint of a route I have to fly manually.

Is this a bug, or am I doing something wrong?
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Re: A330-200 with Canvas and other features

Postby artix » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:55 pm

OE-PH1 wrote in Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:40 pm:
Question 2: In new version there is a problem with the first and last waypoint of a route: after passing last waypoint of a SID the plane turns not to the next waypoint which is the first waypoint of a route. I have to set this waypoint manually again. And then, after last waypoint of a route there is eiter a waypoint somewhere on southpole, or the plane turns directly to destination airport. It's not possible to correct this manually, also the plane won't follow a new route (for example a STAR or waypoints advised by ATC). So after last waypoint of a route I have to fly manually.

Is this a bug, or am I doing something wrong?


Never experienced this: are you using the DEFAULT SID?
At the moment only default SIDs/STARs are supported. Do not use other SIDs/STARs.
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Re: A330-200 with Canvas and other features

Postby OE-PH1 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:42 pm

artix wrote in Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:55 pm:Never experienced this: are you using the DEFAULT SID?
At the moment only default SIDs/STARs are supported. Do not use other SIDs/STARs.


Okay, you mentioned this before. Where is the difference between these "default" SIDs and other SIDs? I use SIDs that contain only "normal" waypoints, without any special things like radials or such stuff.
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Re: A330-200 with Canvas and other features

Postby artix » Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:46 pm

OE-PH1 wrote in Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:42 pm:
Okay, you mentioned this before. Where is the difference between these "default" SIDs and other SIDs? I use SIDs that contain only "normal" waypoints, without any special things like radials or such stuff.



DEFAULT SIDs and STARs are generated from the built-in FG Route Manager (they're the same you find using FG Route Manager dialog) and they're added to the builtin FG flight plan as common waypoints.

The other SIDs and STARs you see in the list are loaded from the A330-200 database file and they were originally handled in a different manner in the original Omega95 version of the A330. They are not added to the builtin FG flight plan and their navigation is managed by a customized script that was created by Omega.
This navigation is currently bugged and doesn't follow the new NAV guidance method that I introduced in my latest commits. Furthermore, the canvas ND is based on FG builtin flight plan and it doesn't currently recognize those waypoints because they're not inserted into the FG flight plan. So you don't even see those waypoints in the NavDisplay.
So, for the moment, do not use them, they're completely broken. Use DEFAULT SIDs and STARs, they're quite good for flying.

I'm currently rewriting the SID/STAR management for non-DEFAULT SIDs/STARs, so that their waypoints will be added into the built-in FG flight plan in order to be flown with standard NAV guidance and for the ND to recognize and display them.
Despite being supported in the next commit, i find that they're still broken, because some data in the database file is corrupted and because many features of "real" procedures still have to be implemented in the simulator/aircraft. So, also with the next commit, i will always suggest you to fly with DEFAULTS SIDs and STARs.
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Re: A330-200 with Canvas and other features

Postby OE-PH1 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:44 pm

It's so cool that you are already working on the new SID/STAR support! Thank you so much for that!

But just to make sure that I will understand what you mean:
I don't use this A330 database file you mentioned. For each airport I use, I have a file called for example LOWI.procedures.xml. They contain SIDs, STARs and approaches. Most of them I wrote on my own, so they contain only waypoints and no unsupported stuff like radials.
Example:
Code: Select all
      <Approach Name="PH08W">
         <App_Waypoint ID="1">
                <Name>ELMEM</Name>
                <Type>Normal</Type>
                <Latitude>47.285666</Latitude>
                <Longitude>10.570833</Longitude>
                <Speed>0</Speed>
                <Altitude>13000</Altitude>
                <AltitudeCons>0</AltitudeCons>
                <AltitudeRestriction>at</AltitudeRestriction>
                <Flytype>Fly-by</Flytype>
                <BankLimit>25</BankLimit>
                <Sp_Turn>Auto</Sp_Turn>
         </App_Waypoint>
         <App_Waypoint ID="2">
                <Name>DME39</Name>
                <Type>Normal</Type>
                <Latitude>47.309833</Latitude>
                <Longitude>11.061000</Longitude>
                <Speed>0</Speed>
                <Altitude>7000</Altitude>
                <AltitudeCons>0</AltitudeCons>
                <AltitudeRestriction>at</AltitudeRestriction>
                <Flytype>Fly-by</Flytype>
                <BankLimit>25</BankLimit>
                <Sp_Turn>Auto</Sp_Turn>
         </App_Waypoint>
         <App_Waypoint ID="3">
                <Name>WI506</Name>
                <Type>Normal</Type>
                <Latitude>47.290166</Latitude>
                <Longitude>11.139166</Longitude>
                <Speed>0</Speed>
                <Altitude>3800</Altitude>
                <AltitudeCons>0</AltitudeCons>
                <AltitudeRestriction>at</AltitudeRestriction>
                <Flytype>Fly-by</Flytype>
                <BankLimit>30</BankLimit>
                <Sp_Turn>Auto</Sp_Turn>
         </App_Waypoint>
         <App_Waypoint ID="4">
                <Name>WI753</Name>
                <Type>Normal</Type>
                <Latitude>47.255166</Latitude>
                <Longitude>11.239666</Longitude>
                <Speed>0</Speed>
                <Altitude>3800</Altitude>
                <AltitudeCons>0</AltitudeCons>
                <AltitudeRestriction>at</AltitudeRestriction>
                <Flytype>Fly-by</Flytype>
                <BankLimit>30</BankLimit>
                <Sp_Turn>Auto</Sp_Turn>
         </App_Waypoint>
         <App_Waypoint ID="5">
                <Name>CEPOT</Name>
                <Type>Normal</Type>
                <Latitude>47.255000</Latitude>
                <Longitude>11.286666</Longitude>
                <Speed>0</Speed>
                <Altitude>0</Altitude>
                <AltitudeCons>2000</AltitudeCons>
                <AltitudeRestriction>above</AltitudeRestriction>
                <Flytype>Fly-by</Flytype>
                <BankLimit>30</BankLimit>
                <Sp_Turn>Auto</Sp_Turn>
         </App_Waypoint>
         <App_Waypoint ID="6">
                <Name>11OEV</Name>
                <Type>Normal</Type>
                <Latitude>47.258166</Latitude>
                <Longitude>11.326833</Longitude>
                <Speed>0</Speed>
                <Altitude>2000</Altitude>
                <AltitudeCons>0</AltitudeCons>
                <AltitudeRestriction>above</AltitudeRestriction>
                <Flytype>Fly-by</Flytype>
                <BankLimit>30</BankLimit>
                <Sp_Turn>Auto</Sp_Turn>
         </App_Waypoint>
            <App_Waypoint ID="7">
                <Name>RW08</Name>
                <Type>Runway</Type>
                <Latitude>47.261619</Latitude>
                <Longitude>11.357017</Longitude>
                <Speed>0</Speed>
                <Altitude>1944</Altitude>
                <AltitudeCons>0</AltitudeCons>
                <AltitudeRestriction>at</AltitudeRestriction>
                <Flytype>Fly-over</Flytype>
                <BankLimit>25</BankLimit>
                <Sp_Turn>Auto</Sp_Turn>
            </App_Waypoint>
      </Approach>

I insert them using the FG built-in route manager. They are displayed on ND and the plane follows them without any problems - just the connection between the route loaded from routes.xml and these procedures is broken (for example: flying from last waypoint of SID to first waypoint of route, and last waypoint of route to first waypoint of STAR/Approach).

Anyway... I don't want to complain, because your work is really great! I will wait until you have fixed it in future. Thanks again!
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Re: A330-200 with Canvas and other features

Postby artix » Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:30 am

OE-PH1: please could you send me those procedures files? how did you load them into FG route-manager?
I need them to perform a test, because i always use the mCDU to plan my route.
If you don't use the mCDU to plan your flight, how did you set the cruise altitude? Setting the cruise altitude into the FG dialog does not work at the moment.

Please, until my next commit:

- Do not use FG route-manager dialog, just use the A330 mCDU.
- Do not use SIDs and STARs other than DEFAULT (select them from mCDU, not from the Dialog).

It's possible that in the future i will disable the FG Route-manager dialog at all, as it was in the original Omega95 version of A330. Use of the mCDU will be mandatory.
For the moment, please send me your procedure files.

Thank you.
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Re: A330-200 with Canvas and other features

Postby OE-PH1 » Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:14 pm

Dear artix!
I just sent you the requested files.
These files are placed in the FG Airport folders and show up in FG route-manager. So I can select them after I did the mCDU flight planning. only the SID/STAR are added in FG dialog. Cruise Altitude is set in mCDU, and is also defined in routes.xml

It would be no problem to have FG route-manager disabled, as long as it is possible to have customized SIDs/STARs availlable on mCDU (with showing up on ND). My preferred airports (for example my real-home-airport LOWI) can't be flown without special SID/STARs. The defaults would make me crash into the mountains ;-)

I just noticed that there is a new version on git. I'm going to download in a second.
thank you!
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Re: A330-200 with Canvas and other features

Postby OE-PH1 » Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:28 pm

Had the chance to have a few test flights with the new version. I did everything in mCDU without using the FG route-manager dialog.
- inserting a customized SID using mCDU works fine!
- there is still a gap (over southpole?) between last waypoint of route and destination airport, but when selecting a default STAR the gap is closed and works fine.
- I found some troubles with the DIR TO function. I wanted to use it to shortcut between 2 waypoints, avoiding the waypoint in between of them, but this made the plane circle around (right turn instead of a left turn). Normally, a DIR TO should send the plane directly to the chosen waypoint (as fly-over?)?
- I see that fly-over waypoints are marked with a little triangle: this is realistic! But: is there a way to change the modus of a waypoint in mCDU?
- As you can see in my LOWI.procedures.xml (sent via email) I use different Approaches after selecting a STAR. Will there be a support for Approaches? This is mandatory for LOWI...

thank you!

PS: on multiplayer other players told me that the A330 is shown not on surface of runway but a bit too low. And others looking at me in model view make my FG crash (maybe the empty.ac error or something with wrong file path ..there is a A320neo path showing up)
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Re: A330-200 with Canvas and other features

Postby artix » Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:07 am

OE-PH1 wrote in Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:28 pm:
- there is still a gap (over southpole?) between last waypoint of route and destination airport, but when selecting a default STAR the gap is closed and works fine.



Southpole? Does this happen when you pass the Southpole?

OE-PH1 wrote in Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:28 pm:- I found some troubles with the DIR TO function. I wanted to use it to shortcut between 2 waypoints, avoiding the waypoint in between of them, but this made the plane circle around (right turn instead of a left turn). Normally, a DIR TO should send the plane directly to the chosen waypoint (as fly-over?)?



The DIR TO function has to be rewritten to be more realistic: i'm working with temporary flight plans ant after that i will rewrite it.

OE-PH1 wrote in Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:28 pm:- I see that fly-over waypoints are marked with a little triangle: this is realistic! But: is there a way to change the modus of a waypoint in mCDU?


Yes, like on a real Airbus: just press the OVFY key (on the mCDU, between the SP and CLR keys) and than press the left line key corresponding to the waypoint you want to "toggle".

OE-PH1 wrote in Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:28 pm:- As you can see in my LOWI.procedures.xml (sent via email) I use different Approaches after selecting a STAR. Will there be a support for Approaches? This is mandatory for LOWI...


Yes, many parts of the mCDU will be rewritten: but for many implementation i will probabily wait to see if it's the case to rewrite the whole mCDU in canvas (there's a framework for canvas CDUs that's WIP).

OE-PH1 wrote in Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:28 pm:
PS: on multiplayer other players told me that the A330 is shown not on surface of runway but a bit too low. And others looking at me in model view make my FG crash (maybe the empty.ac error or something with wrong file path ..there is a A320neo path showing up)



I had no time to work on the multiplayer, i think it was already bugged in the original Omega's version (it seems to be copy-pasted from A320neo). Please consider it broken for the moment.
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Re: A330-200 with Canvas and other features

Postby OE-PH1 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:56 pm

artix wrote in Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:07 am:Southpole? Does this happen when you pass the Southpole?


LOL no, sorry for being not precise enough... When I look at the map the purple line of the active route turns towards south at last waypoint, goes to infinite ("towards southpole?") and then comes back from infinite towards destination airport. I will take a screenshot next time. Inserting a STAR solves it. But in many cases you don't fly a STAR, for example when controlled by ATC. ATC may advise you to fly to certain waypoints and you have to add them manually. As far as I could see, there are some troubles with it - but I have to reproduce it in order to give you a better report on that issue.

artix wrote in Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:07 am:Yes, many parts of the mCDU will be rewritten: but for many implementation i will probabily wait to see if it's the case to rewrite the whole mCDU in canvas (there's a framework for canvas CDUs that's WIP).

Okay, thank you! Until then, FG dialog could be a workaround for me.

artix wrote in Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:07 am:I had no time to work on the multiplayer, i think it was already bugged in the original Omega's version (it seems to be copy-pasted from A320neo). Please consider it broken for the moment.

That's all fine, I just wanted to report.
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Re: A330-200 with Canvas and other features

Postby OE-PH1 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:42 pm

TESTING UPDATE:

We were 2 pilots (me and AB450) with latest A330s - just to make sure that it is not just my fault:
1. We were flying EDDF(25C)/EDDG(25), SID MARUN 3J: At MARUN the planes started turning right instead of left towards ARPEG.
2. A bit before HMM we wanted to intercept radial 032 from HMM: pushing LOC button took effect after passing HMM instead of intercepting the radial with a smooth right turn before HMM (normally the plane should turn immediately after pushing LOC)

thank you!
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Re: A330-200 with Canvas and other features

Postby artix » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:58 pm

OE-PH1 wrote in Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:56 pm:
LOL no, sorry for being not precise enough... When I look at the map the purple line of the active route turns towards south at last waypoint, goes to infinite ("towards southpole?") and then comes back from infinite towards destination airport. I will take a screenshot next time. Inserting a STAR solves it. But in many cases you don't fly a STAR, for example when controlled by ATC. ATC may advise you to fly to certain waypoints and you have to add them manually. As far as I could see, there are some troubles with it - but I have to reproduce it in order to give you a better report on that issue.


I think this is a bug with the new FG route path generation: the new algorithm (hardcoded into flightgear) generates more complex routes using also curves and taking into account flyBy/flyOver waypoints: this allows to have paths with curves instead of routes made only of straight lines.
Anyway i have already noticed that sometimes it creates extremely long curves that can even reach the poles! This issue is not related to A330, in fact you saw this bug on the builtin FG map dialog.
I hope it will be fixed in the next FG release.
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Re: A330-200 with Canvas and other features

Postby sanhozay » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:43 pm

artix wrote in Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:58 pm:
OE-PH1 wrote in Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:56 pm:I hope it will be fixed in the next FG release.

Have you reported it? If not, do you have a reliable way of reproducing it, e.g. is there a particular route that triggers it?
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Re: A330-200 with Canvas and other features

Postby OE-PH1 » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:13 pm

sanhozay wrote in Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:43 pm:Have you reported it? If not, do you have a reliable way of reproducing it, e.g. is there a particular route that triggers it?


I can reproduce it with the route I described above.
departure: EDDF (RWY 25C) to arrival: EDDG (RWY 35)
SID: MARUN 3J (TABUM LIKSI LORPA MARUN)
ROUTE: MARUN ARPEG BADGO ABILU ADEMI HMM
STAR: default

(everything entered on mCDU and not on FG route-manager dialog)
the FG map shows correct route, but in over MARUN (fly-over) the plane starts a right-turn instead of a left-turn towards ARPEG
and before inserting the default STAR the route shown on FG map goes from HMM to infinite south and back to EDDG.
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Re: A330-200 with Canvas and other features

Postby OE-PH1 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:45 pm

Just a quick update:
The problem with turning in wrong direction appears with every route!
When the plane (NAV mode) reaches the last waypoint of a SID (= first waypoint of the route), it doesn't turn to the next waypoint (= second waypoint of the route). After flying over the second waypoint of the route in HDG mode, I switch back to NAV and the rest of the route works fine.

Screenshot below:
Another user made a screenshot of me parking at EDDH. It shows that the A330 is below surface.
Image
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