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A-10 Warthog HUD

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A-10 Warthog HUD

Postby HelldiverSquadron » Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:12 pm

Hello, all;

The current HUD for the A-10 is pretty nice, especially when paired with the Bombable package. However, it isn't as realistic as I would like it to be. I'm the sort of chap that doesn't care nearly as much about cockpit switches as he does the HUD. When in gun mode, A/A, A/G, etc. the targeting recticles aren't working how they should. Is someone working on this? I'd like to see the A-10 developed more. This is what I'd like to see, and it's mainly from DCS, but ARMA and Black Shark, too:

Image

Image

P.S.:

would it be possible to have a TV screen for ground targeting like in the pictures?
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Re: A-10 Warthog HUD

Postby Johan G » Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:01 pm

Using Nasal and Canvas it should be possible to implement this, except the TV screen (at least for now), though it would be a lot of work for whoever does so. A good way would be to identify least common denominators in used symbologies and start from there.

As for the TV screen, adding in another view have been discussed many, many times before, for example here. It could be useful for many other things as well, like rear view mirrors, drift scopes etc.
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Re: A-10 Warthog HUD

Postby hvengel » Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:48 pm

Also there is already Nasal code for a lead computing gun sight "computer" in Aircraft/Instruments3d/lead-computing-gunsights that can be used to do the calculations needed for animating the gun sight reticle to get proper lead compensation. There is currently an older WWII era gun sight (K-14A) implemented using the lead computer. The lead computer code is highly configurable and fairly advanced (jet era algorithm). It should work fine with modern systems that include radar range finding since it needs a range feed of some sort (in feet). The lead computer interface is property tree based so it is simple to configure and interface to. The K-14A implementation is complete including full reticle animation and should show how this can be made to work with other lead computing gun sights. This is currently installed in the 3.0 version of the JSBSim P-51D. A radar ranging sight will be simpler to implement than a K-14A since the reticle will be much simpler to animate.

I also want to be able to do rear view mirrors. Hopefully we will be able to do that some time soon.
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Re: A-10 Warthog HUD

Postby HelldiverSquadron » Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:19 pm

mirrors are great to have. as for a leading recticle, i am lost. canvas is not my thing. just wondering if anyone is working on it.
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Re: A-10 Warthog HUD

Postby Thorsten » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:40 am

My understanding is that mirrors/TV screens are on the horizon, Lauri seems to have done some work a while ago about configurable camera definitions which apparenty is 90% of it and just would have to be adapted to recent GIT. But it's probably going to be a major framerate drain as you need to render a second camera pass, and while the smallness of the screen-mirror makes this cheap on the fragment side, the vertex side will run in full glory. At worst, in vertex dominated situations (good visibility, detailed clouds) it may cut your framerate in half to render a rear mirror view.
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Re: A-10 Warthog HUD

Postby Bomber » Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:03 am

Serious flight combat simmers will tell you that mirrors are of no use, and anyone that uses them are normally dead real quick.

Pretty eye candy for a flight sim and not worth the fps hit.
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Re: A-10 Warthog HUD

Postby hvengel » Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:57 pm

HelldiverSquadron wrote in Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:19 pm:mirrors are great to have. as for a leading recticle, i am lost. canvas is not my thing. just wondering if anyone is working on it.


I was mostly pointing out that the building blocks for a fully functional lead computing gun sight are already in place. I was not saying that you should be doing the work. But I also think that at this point this could be setup by someone who minimal programming/Nasal experience.

Setting up a new computing gun sight is non-trivial but it is not a huge undertaking at this point (FG3) as all of the hard work, IE. creating the lead computer algorithm, has been done and is setup to be leveraged for adding new computing gun sights. All of the hooks are through the property tree and the lead computer code is FDM type neutral.

At this point most of the work would involve (from most to least time consuming):

1. Doing the research to understand how the new gun sight behaves.
2. Setting up the radar ranging code.
3. Doing the reticle animation.
4. Integrating this into the aircraft FDM.

Hopefully whoever does the first computing sight with radar ranging puts the radar ranging code in a shared location so that this can be leveraged by others. FG has a significant number of aircraft that should have computing gun sights (dozens on git) and as far as I know we currently only have one aircraft with a fully functional computing gun sight.
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Re: A-10 Warthog HUD

Postby HelldiverSquadron » Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:13 am

It would be great to have that worm and whatnot to predict the velocity and mark of the target(s). The A-10's gunsight for ground strafing is great and is not in the current FG version. It is a circle with a single small dot in the center. that is more accurate than the hyphen-looking recticle there.
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Re: A-10 Warthog HUD

Postby HelldiverSquadron » Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:01 pm

The 3.0 version of your P-51D in JSBSim? Where can I find that?
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Re: A-10 Warthog HUD

Postby hvengel » Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:33 pm

On the FlightGear 3.0 Aircraft Download page. This will be virtually identical to the version I zipped up for you and put in place where you could download it a while back. This version will work with FG 2.10 or later if you also get the AIrcraft/Instruments3d/computing-gun-sights directory from FG 3.0.
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Re: A-10 Warthog HUD

Postby HelldiverSquadron » Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:49 pm

Yes, but I'm talking about a computer-initiated gun sequencing. For a lead box to aim at in a dogfight or when strafing. The K14 is not what the A-10 uses.

Here: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/t ... 81386.html

They talk about the CCIP HUD and I noticed the bit about a terrain database. Knowing the limitations of FG, the A-10 probably would take around three years just to load subsystems. That would be awesome wave, but in reality I want to see a flexible script for a HUD that can be slapped onto any aircraft, particularly close-in fighters. For instance, has anyone seen the F-4's HUD? It has a big circle on it---that's what I would like to see. No more "default HUDs" and made-up fighter HUDs. How about the real thing--a dotted circle with a recticle and CCIP?
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Re: A-10 Warthog HUD

Postby hvengel » Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:26 pm

You are right the K-14A is an old totally mechanical lead computing gun sight and I was not suggesting that you use the K-14A. The "lead computer" that is used by the simulated K-14A is much more modern and uses a digital computer algorithm that was developed by the USAF Academy. This algorithm was at one point state of the art and is very close to currently used lead computing algorithms. This problem was well understood before WWII but WWII mechanical technology was a limiting factor before the use of digital computers for this functionality starting in the 1970s . The "lead computer" is setup to be used by a wide range of gunsights since it can be configured and interfaced through the property tree and was intended to be a general purpose fixed gun (not suitable for turrets) lead computer. The interface is fairly simple so it is not hard to use as long as you understand what inputs it needs (muzzle velocity, ballistic coefficient, horizontal and vertical gun offset relative to the sight line, gun harmonization range...) and what its outputs are. The current JSBSim P-51D is a good example of how all of this is hooked together. The lead computer is even setup so that it can be turned on and off.

But to use it for a new gunsight is non-trivial since you will need to do the work to setup the ranging radar and to create and animate the sight reticle.

To do this someone will need to:

1. Do the research to understand how the new gun sight behaves.
2. Set up the radar ranging code.
3. Do the reticle modeling and animation.
4. Integrate this into the aircraft FDM.

I also agree that aircraft devs should be moving toward aircraft specific HUDs and away from generic or made-up fighter HUDs. Part of that is putting together an aircraft specific computing gunsight system and that will require doing the 4 steps above. Of course after someone does step 2, assuming that it is properly generalized, then aircraft devs will be able to leverage that work which will make the task simpler. In addition the sight reticle and it's animation code for the K-14A is actually much more complex than what will be needed by a radar ranging sight so steps 3 and 4 above will be much easier than they were for the K-14A. The K-14A gunsight has 9 objects in the reticle that are animated. A radar ranging computing gunsight might need 2 or 3 animated objects for the reticle or even as few as one object depending on the gunsight.
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Re: A-10 Warthog HUD

Postby HelldiverSquadron » Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:08 pm

Aye, and I get you now. The K14 was done well, hvengel, and I love to fly it. I just hope someone smarter than I will start making better HUDs. Preferably the actual FG developers.
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Re: A-10 Warthog HUD

Postby EnricoC » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:04 pm

a greeting to all ....... I wanted to know if there is an updated version of A 10.
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