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Why does the MIG-21 have a FSA insignia and not SAA?  Topic is solved

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Why does the MIG-21 have a FSA insignia and not SAA?

Postby SAAMIG21 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:39 pm

Hello flight gear operators!
I am wondering why does the MIG-21 have a FSA insignia instead of the real Syrian air force insignia that of the real Syrian flag?. I know what has happened in the Syrian Civil War and the attacks that the Syrian air force has commited but that still doesn't give you the right to change the insignia to the FSA instead of the real one. Can we please keep politics away from Flightgear and base the Syrian air force insignia on the real one and not the fake FSA one which btw the FSA doesnt have an air force. I remember a couple of years ago when the MIG-21 has the real SAF insignia and it was cool flying around in it. So please can you flightgear change it back to the real Syrian air force insignia and the real Syrian flag? Regards. :wink:
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Re: Why does the MIG-21 have a FSA insignia and not SAA?

Postby Thorsten » Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:22 pm

I am wondering why does the MIG-21 have a FSA insignia instead of the real Syrian air force insignia that of the real Syrian flag?


I'm guessing because the maintainer decided that way.

but that still doesn't give you the right to change the insignia to the FSA instead of the real one


I dunno - usually copyright works the other way round, the copyright holder can ask that a real logo is removed and a fake one is used instead. I'm not aware of any right that demands that things have to be depicted as they are in reality (otherwise movies and literature as works of fiction would be in real trouble...) Maybe you can elaborate what you mean?

So please can you flightgear change it back to the real Syrian air force insignia and the real Syrian flag?


Here's the news - FG is OpenSource licensed, which means that you can make any change you like.
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Re: Why does the MIG-21 have a FSA insignia and not SAA?

Postby SAAMIG21 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:55 pm

What i mean is that there should not be any copyright as the real Syrian air force insignia has been used before on Flightgear ( only a couple years ago) until someone changed it for an FSA one which doesnt exist in real life. And as i am not someone who is good at editing insignias or livery's on Flightgear, I ask the operators of the game or someone else to change it back to it's original form. The file should be left somewhere in the database I think.
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Re: Why does the MIG-21 have a FSA insignia and not SAA?

Postby enrogue » Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:02 pm

The history that I can find at least in fgaddon SVN has always had the green coloured flag (i.e. the wrong one), and while I don't have a complete archive, the earliest version I have that has the high res textures has the green flag - anything before that (with the lower res textures) has no Syrian AF livery - at least in my archive, so I can't help there sorry

I personally don't think politics came into it when the livery was created - the original author probably just came across an image & used that as a basis for the Livery texture

The only thing I can suggest is ask Pinto about correcting the SYAAF livery - he is currently developing the MiG-21bis on github here https://github.com/l0k1/MiG-21bis or try this forum topic viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7390
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Re: Why does the MIG-21 have a FSA insignia and not SAA?

Postby PINTO » Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:45 pm

I’ll check my docs tonight and let you know about the real life livery. In the mean time, feel free to submit a pull reqeust with a new/fixed livery.
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Re: Why does the MIG-21 have a FSA insignia and not SAA?

Postby CaptB » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:44 pm

This was discussed before here: https://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7390&start=165#p295110

I can fix this quickly if need be. From what I remember the color scheme was also not the same as the SAA uses.
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Re: Why does the MIG-21 have a FSA insignia and not SAA?

Postby SAAMIG21 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:03 pm

Yeah I would appreaciate it if you Captb could fix this at this is an aircraft and Syrian air force livery that is near and dear to my heart. If I could do it I would but I cant so I request anyone to change it to the original one. Here is what it should look like with the real insignia:
http://wiki.flightgear.org/File:Mig-21_splash.png
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Re: Why does the MIG-21 have a FSA insignia and not SAA?

Postby PINTO » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:44 pm

After review, the livery is correct. It was the livery used by the MiG-21F-13 serial number 2540, used during the Six Day War. The only error is that it is on a MiG-21bis, not a MiG-21F-13.

edit: here's a Syrian MiG-17 with the old insignia

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Re: Why does the MIG-21 have a FSA insignia and not SAA?

Postby SAAMIG21 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:02 pm

Yes but as you said its the old livery from the Six Day war. The new livery which has existed after the Six Day war and until now is the roundel with three concentric lines, with a red outer part, white middle and black inner part. It also has the two green stars in the white circle which reflects the two stars on the national flag. Here is more information about the roundel and livery: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Air_Force

Under Markings you will find more information about the roundel. Regards.
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Re: Why does the MIG-21 have a FSA insignia and not SAA?

Postby PINTO » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:04 pm

Yes, it is the old insignia. But, as it stands, the livery in question is correct, and no corrections need to be done to it. If you, or someone else, would like to submit a new livery, that would be welcome.
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Re: Why does the MIG-21 have a FSA insignia and not SAA?  

Postby PINTO » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:08 pm

Another note, briefly, the livery you posted about in http://wiki.flightgear.org/File:Mig-21_splash.png is available under Egyptian Air Force (1969/70).

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Re: Why does the MIG-21 have a FSA insignia and not SAA?

Postby SAAMIG21 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:27 pm

Ok did not know that it existed under the Egyptian Air Force, Thank you. Apparently Syria and Egypt became a single state in that period of time and the roundel of the Syrian air force was created there. Well this thread should be done then and thank you all for the pleasent and fast responses. Regards.
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Re: Why does the MIG-21 have a FSA insignia and not SAA?

Postby PINTO » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:37 am

Yup no problem. See my sig for a greatly improved MiG-21 over what is currently available in FGAddon (fgaddon merge coming eventually).
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