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CVS commits?

Discussion of aircraft textures and liveries

CVS commits?

Postby MD-Terp » Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:27 pm

I am glad to see all of the effort to create new and varying paint jobs for all of our fleet. But, is anyone making any effort to get any of this included in CVS, and/or the eventual 2.0 base package? I'm all for private distribution as a means to share in the meantime, but if a 2.0 version comes out lacking all of these additions, a lot of the effort seems wasted.

Thoughts?
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Re: CVS commits?

Postby HHS » Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:50 pm

The only way how all these paints will be included are, when the aircraft uses livery changing over mp. And in the moment no one is really working on changing the aircraft like 787 for making it 2.0 compatible.....
It seems noone cares about how FGFS developement is working.....
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Re: CVS commits?

Postby DAWUSS » Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:58 pm

1.0 won't be compaitble with 2.0?
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Re: CVS commits?

Postby HHS » Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:32 pm

DAWUSS wrote:1.0 won't be compaitble with 2.0?

It will be compatible- .rgb-files will also work, but .png- format is more recommanded. The newer aircrafts in CVS uses .png- that's why they won't work in 1.0.0.
But the main thing is, that different livieres are now only handled by the dynamic livery changing over mp- the 787 is the example how it not should be!
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Re: CVS commits?

Postby xsaint » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:01 am

Yes, it will be good if the wonderful 787 allows us to change liveries on the fly within MP.... and if the contrail problems are fixed, 787 will still be a lovely aircraft on version 2.0
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Re: CVS commits?

Postby MD-Terp » Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:24 am

I appreciate the responses. I'm just hoping/wishing that all of the effort put into creating these new liveries could also be put into including them properly into the models, so that (a) those of us updating via CVS will get them automatically, and (b) new users won't have to spend months and months finding, downloading, and installing them all once they initially get Flightgear.

I have to admit that my enthusiasm for keeping track of the new releases and installing them has grown thin, because I found after a while that I spent more time downloading and installing updates than I did actually flying the sim -- and, if I didn't, I began seeing blue and yellow gliders everywhere instead of the newly painted planes they were meant to represent. So, I'm damned if I do, and damned if I don't. And I would guess that I'm not the only one feeling this way as judged by xsaint's comment in another thread that the overall response to new liveries seems to be dying down.

If that is indeed the case, then perhaps the best way to proceed would be to contact the model authors and ask about including the liveries in their releases, so that the goal may eventually be that they all be available to all FG users, and not only to those who have the time and dedication to track down every single new release that is made.

This is all just my opinion. If I'm wrong and the vast majority of users are happy with the current process for creating and distributing the new paint jobs, then please feel free to ignore it!
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Re: CVS commits?

Postby Yasumune » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:42 am

It seems as if there are two paths of development taking place. One path is being done behind closed doors and the other path is being developed by people "outside" the regular/original developers. There isn't any cooperation/coodination between the "official" developers and a lot of the folks who are devloping things on the fly.

This is just my impression and it is only an opinion.

I wonder if maybe the time has come for the "official" development team to be more public or if maybe there is a common place/time that the official developers can meet and coodinate with the groups who seem to be developing stuff "outside" of official and original channels? I have always wondered why we don't see more posts here of an "official" nature or by official developers.....folks who are on the development team, as it were.

Or doesn't it work that way?

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Re: CVS commits?

Postby jentron » Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:14 pm

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Re: CVS commits?

Postby Yasumune » Sat Oct 04, 2008 3:18 pm

Well, then I stand corrected on the "closed door" issue. I am curious if anyone can expand on this concept that MD-Terp has put forth. Can the new liveries and "developments" that are being made outside of the developers (official developers) be incorporated into the CVS and such so that when we install official Flight Gear stuff, all the new/approved stuff gets loaded up as well?

It seems as if there are two (or a million) avenues of development and none of them are coodinated or incorporated together.

It makes it time consuming and frusterating to get the Sim on track and keep track of which stuff needs to go where.

Yas
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Re: CVS commits?

Postby HHS » Sat Oct 04, 2008 3:35 pm

Yasumune wrote:It seems as if there are two (or a million) avenues of development and none of them are coodinated or incorporated together.

It makes it time consuming and frusterating to get the Sim on track and keep track of which stuff needs to go where.

Yas

Well- the same problem do the other sims has too- there are tons of freeware and Add-ons- very often with the same content in MSFS and X-plane. It isn't possible to coordinate all but the user can choose which Add-on he wants.

But I repeat what was said over and over again: the developement takes place in the mailing-list or in the IRC-chat! These are the only two doors we have and that's the way developement in OpenSource works.

Just subscribe! You could do it here, so you can do it there too!
Of course this allows developing here- some really nice ideas had their beginning here and made their way into CVS.

Can the new liveries and "developments" that are being made outside of the developers (official developers) be incorporated into the CVS and such so that when we install official Flight Gear stuff, all the new/approved stuff gets loaded up as well?

Of course, it only should fit into the licence and do not break anything! Make a request on the mailing-list for comit. Sometimes it needs some days, because our developers are busy- but at least it should find their way into FlightGear!

By the way: If you are in the mailing-list, you can follow the discussion about a new maybe release at the end of the year- so hurry up! http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=200810041008.23267.d.talsma%40xs4all.nl&forum_name=flightgear-devel
That's what I have to do now, if I want tosee my projects in FGFS!

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Re: CVS commits?

Postby ajm » Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:53 am

Yasumune wrote:Well, then I stand corrected on the "closed door" issue. I am curious if anyone can expand on this concept that MD-Terp has put forth. Can the new liveries and "developments" that are being made outside of the developers (official developers) be incorporated into the CVS and such so that when we install official Flight Gear stuff, all the new/approved stuff gets loaded up as well?


The only real developments that I see being made outside of the mailing lists and IRC channel (neither of which are closed doors - why not join us?) are scenery objects (for which there is a well established route into CVS) and countless repaints of airliners.

Now, the problem with the latter, as HHS has tried to say here already, is that people are generally doing a half-job on the liveries. We are not going to allow a thousand 747s to show up when using --list-aircraft, when the only difference between them is the paint job! People need to muck in and apply the already-developed generic livery system to aircraft they want to repaint. It only needs to be done once for each aircraft, no big deal. It will require learning a little bit about how a FG model is put together, but it's hardly brain surgery, just copy and paste mostly (mind you, maybe brain surgery is like that too for all I know about it ;-) ).

Until that is done, all these hundreds of repaints are effectively worthless. It's no conspiracy by "the developers" to keep the riff-raff out... this is open source, YOU are "the developers", there are no interviews or application forms, no secret initiation rituals :-) Fix something, tell people via the official channels, and if it's half sane, it'll go into CVS!

It seems as if there are two (or a million) avenues of development and none of them are coodinated or incorporated together. It makes it time consuming and frusterating to get the Sim on track and keep track of which stuff needs to go where.


Well, yes, it's mostly true that there are hundreds of avenues of development. It's a good thing! There is no FGFS "head office", setting us targets and objectives to meet. People work on what they're interested in, when they get the time. The thing is they then package it up and ask for it to be committed to CVS, and we all benefit. And the process has worked very well indeed; we have had many very important features long before other off-the-shelf flight sims, and still today there is no other flight sim (at all) that provides the kind of flexibility that FG does.

I once again highly recommend joining the mailing lists (fg-devel and the cvs commits list in particular) and dropping in to the IRC channel if you are seriously interested in helping with FG. You will see the process at work, and get help on any FG-related problem or question.
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Re: CVS commits?

Postby Yasumune » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:35 am

Well, I certainly appreciate your perspective on this. While I'm not really a development class individual (I lack programming skills and have no experience with developing software...) it is my sincerest desire to help the project where I can. So, I'll have to get registered at the mailing list and see if someone has a job they can guide me to.

I didn't mean to insinuate that the official developers were a secret group....I had hoped originally that this discussion board, being the official Flight Gear discussion board, would have been the catalyst where all the developers were hanging out and conversing and soliciting help while coodinating efforts to improve the 'Sim. But that isn't happening. This site is more just for fun and such and seems less geared towards being an official information area. :cry:

I guess I have just been hanging around the wrong place and need to get together with the actual developers on the list and see if I can help. :D

Thanks again for the perspective and information!

Yas
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Re: CVS commits?

Postby HHS » Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:18 pm

Yasumune wrote:...I had hoped originally that this discussion board, being the official Flight Gear discussion board, would have been the catalyst where all the developers were hanging out and conversing and soliciting help while coodinating efforts to improve the 'Sim. But that isn't happening. This site is more just for fun and such and seems less geared towards being an official information area. :cry:...


It is not just for fun- it is the place for all users ( and even developers can be users ;-))- of course because we are OpenSource every user can be become easily a developer! The official information area is the offical homepage - there are all the anouncements.
But, how you can see- a lot of developers are here too- mfranz, ajm, stuart....

Like it was said thousand times here- the mailing-list is the place for developement. If anyone announce a new developement, a change in code etc. everyone who has subscribed get this news. In a Forum you have to search for that- that makes it difficult to reach all active developers.
Of course you can even develope here in the forum- thats how the radardist.nas came on his way, the f14- but they were soon introduced on the devel-list, so that they could get into CVS and at least later will be part of the new release.

And that's how it should be with all the textures and everything else- I guess we have to hear a lot of whining when the next release is out and the people discover that their work introduced here is not inside! Like the improved 787, which isn't still yet in CVS.... :roll: :lol:

A first idea given here how you can contribute: http://www.flightgear.org/goals.html.
Martin is also waiting for some buildings, airports...
Some new sounds would be great - we are lacking of these. There are only few aircrafts who has a original recorded sound....
Textures for everyone to use under GPL-licence...
Completing aircraft flightdecks....
Making a new better homepage for FlightGear :wink:

There is so much how you can contribute!
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Re: CVS commits?

Postby Gijs » Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:19 pm

ajm wrote:People need to muck in and apply the already-developed generic livery system to aircraft they want to repaint. It only needs to be done once for each aircraft, no big deal. It will require learning a little bit about how a FG model is put together, but it's hardly brain surgery, just copy and paste mostly (mind you, maybe brain surgery is like that too for all I know about it ;-) ).

We can't discharge on people about this. There wasn't any tutorial, manual or guide available on how the system works.
As I'm one of the few people that work on sharing manuals etc. I started working on one for the wiki: http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/Livery_over_MP Feel free to add and edit.
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