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Space Shuttle Setup

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Space Shuttle Setup

Postby slaintemaith » Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:54 pm

So I've just installed a fresh copy of FlightGear. I have years of Orbiter, MS-FS, X-Plane, Kerbal Space Program, etc... under my belt.

I installed (I think) the space shuttle.
I start the scenario, and the shuttle, which isn't attached to any gantry, flops over on its side like a dying thing that flops over on its side when it dies.

Guess we're not going to space today.

Help? I see many many tutorials on how to get the shuttle in to space--I just want one that shows me how to make it stay upright. =)
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Re: Space Shuttle Setup

Postby Thorsten » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:17 pm

Did you try the FG Space Shuttle Flight Manual? I'm spending an unholy amount writing an up-to-date documentation that describes how the sim and spaceflight interact so that it's used by people.

(In the event, it might be your commandline is odd and you're asking the wrong thing, it might be a timing issue with gantry/scenery loading... insufficient information to make any conclusions)
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Re: Space Shuttle Setup

Postby legoboyvdlp » Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:05 pm

Ensure you are starting with the launch variant of the shuttle - i.e. not orbital operations, approaching ISS, entry, etc - I normally use

Code: Select all
lat=28.6206
lon=-80.6133
heading=270


(provided by gingin - I enter those into the location tab. They can also be passed in the commandline).
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Re: Space Shuttle Setup

Postby slaintemaith » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:10 pm

I have no idea. I'm disqualified by one of the first few lines in the FG Space Shuttle Flight Manual: I'm -not- reasonably--or even slightly--familiar with Flight Gear.
I thought X-Plane was klunky and unintuitive.

I was wrong.

I'm SURE everything is customizable and can be made to operate properly.
I'm SURE this isn't the Flight Sim version of Dwarf Fortress...

I added --aircraft=SpaceShuttle-launch to the command line box before hitting 'fly.'

Same thing happened. *Flop*
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Re: Space Shuttle Setup

Postby legoboyvdlp » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:22 pm

You can select the launch variant in the aircraft menu in the launcher - search for 'Atlantis'?
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Re: Space Shuttle Setup

Postby Thorsten » Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:56 am

I thought X-Plane was klunky and unintuitive.

I was wrong.


A real Space Shuttle is something that requires months of preparation to set on the pad and months of training for the crew to operate properly - and it has a very unintuitive interface.

To the degree that we aim to provide a realistic simulation, these characteristics carry over - you won't just be able to start the sim and do anything meaningful with the Shuttle (or even expect it to work) without reading some amount of manual first. And if you have no prior experience with FG, you have picked the very worst craft to learn that part.

If you're after a quick look-around in the cockpit, intuitive controls and a launch ten minutes into your orientation session you're with the wrong simulation - this is a high-fidelity Shuttle simulation with a myriad of ways to make your life miserable if you forget a procedure.

I'm SURE everything is customizable and can be made to operate properly.


This is possible, it is also possible that you're seeing an elusive timing bug (the troubleshooting section of the manual should have some context), but you're not providing any information - I don't know what FG version you installed, I have to guess what Shuttle version, I don't know where you try to start, I don't know what other options you selected - I don't have telemetry, I can't magically guess from 'Houston, we have a problem' what the cause of the problem is, sorry.
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Re: Space Shuttle Setup

Postby slaintemaith » Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:38 pm

Oh. Please don't take that personally regarding your Shuttle. I was referring to Flight Gear on the whole. I've played far klunkier, more unintuitive games. I'm familiar enough with the shuttle to know about its procedures--part of why I was looking forward to seeing it operate. Frankly, I was also hoping to see bits of the GPC code for re-entry calculations and energy management--but at a far later stage.

As of this moment, I'd just like to see it on the pad--stationary and not flopping over.
I'm using the latest version of FG. I'm using (I presume) the latest version of the shuttle. I'm using Windows 10 x64. I try to start from the launcher. When I try to alter my properties for the FG icon to automatically add the --aircraft=SpaceShuttle-launch bit, the program fails to launch, citing that the shuttle file isn't there. And it probably isn't--at least where it expects it to be.

Forgive my lack of information. I wasn't deliberately being obtuse, I was hoping this might be a common problem that everyone here had heard a million times and had an easy solution that someone would sort of say, "Ugh. That again. Do a search for 'x' conditions."

(I really did try searching for it first)

Seems that's not the case.
Last edited by slaintemaith on Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Space Shuttle Setup

Postby legoboyvdlp » Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:42 pm

You don't need to add --aircraft=SpaceShuttle-launch: that's handled automatically by the launcher.
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Re: Space Shuttle Setup

Postby slaintemaith » Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:45 pm

Yes, I figured that out when the program didn't start. =)
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Re: Space Shuttle Setup

Postby Thorsten » Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:10 pm

Forgive my lack of information. I wasn't deliberately being obtuse, I was hoping this might be a common problem that everyone here had heard a million times and had an easy solution that someone would sort of say, "Ugh. That again. Do a search for 'x' conditions."


It might be an elusive bug that has happened now and then (and by rights ought to be gone), or it might be something else entirely. FG doesn't entirely like craft sitting on the tail (there's some hard-coded assumptions that craft should sit on a gear), so there's plenty of trickery going on to make it work which might go wrong, but you might also just intersect with a parked aircraft or some other object.

So - can you help us with the following?

Where are you trying to start?

What happens if you start paused, wait till you can see the Shuttle (float in mid-air, it's parked there till the pad is placed...) and then un-pause?

What does your commandline look like (the launcher has a button to display it)?

Are you seeing a pad on the ground at all?
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Re: Space Shuttle Setup

Postby slaintemaith » Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:50 pm

Got it to load and sit.
I -think- it had to do with me manually downloading the shuttle as opposed to FG dling it and installing where it felt it should.
(This after returning everything to default)

So what should I set for "location?" Seems it wants to default to Honolulu.
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Re: Space Shuttle Setup

Postby legoboyvdlp » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:04 pm

legoboyvdlp wrote in Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:05 pm:
Code: Select all
lat=28.6206
lon=-80.6133
heading=270




This is Kennedy Space Center - you can input those in the location tab - as lat,lon or lon,lat - I can never remember which way round it is! :lol:


If you put it in right it ahould show a map and you should see the coastline, if it just shows a blank map you're over water, and you need to try it the other way round.
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Re: Space Shuttle Setup

Postby slaintemaith » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:13 pm

Thank you very much!

**The location tab doesn't allow for lat/lon co-ordinates. Just an airport, code, or fix?

Even looking at the wiki doesn't say where one enters the lat.lon coordinates in a useful manner.

1) Open MPMap...
I have no idea what this is, where it's located, or if it comes with FGear by default.

2)Land at the airport and taxi to the position...
I'm not wanting an airport, so thanks but no...

3) Get the data from a GPS or nav system.
I already have the data, I just need to know where to put it...
3a) If I start with FGRun...
Nope. I click on an icon for FGFS.

3b) If I start with a command or command file...
Nope. I click on an icon for FGFS.


I've attempted to put the lat/lon data in the "additional command line arguments" portion of the "Settings" tab, but this does bupkis. I suspect because a location is quite plainly shown in the location tab. (Our old friend, Honolulu)
I've not been able to divine where one puts lat/lon coordinates in the "Location" tab of the launcher.
I promise I'm not deliberately being obtuse, I'm just not familiar with this program in the slightest and the interface makes no sense at all. It seems like it should have a LOT more options than it does.
Last edited by slaintemaith on Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Space Shuttle Setup

Postby legoboyvdlp » Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:24 am

Simply type in the lat / lon string, in this case, -80.6133,28.6206 in the same place you would enter an airport - it should work, if not, its a bug.
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Re: Space Shuttle Setup

Postby slaintemaith » Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:09 am

Image

Nope. Still good ol' Honolulu. And about 10000 feet in the air.
But it's a search box, not a location entry box.
And that's the only place where I can enter anything in regarding location.
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