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TransGear Airways, Saturday December 12, ALL TIMES UTC...

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TransGear Airways, Saturday December 12, ALL TIMES UTC...

Postby MD-Terp » Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:05 pm

Code: Select all
TransGear Airways pilot assignments for Saturday, Dec 12, 2009:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flight | Route          | Inbound   | Outbound  | Equipment     | Pilot
-------+----------------+-----------+-----------+---------------+--------
TGA184 | KMCI-KBWI-KMCI | 1305-1515 | 1545-1755 | (tbd)         | (tbd)
TGA154 | KORD-KBWI-KORD | 1345-1515 | 1545-1715 | (tbd)         | (tbd)
TGA150 | KATL-KBWI-KATL | 1350-1515 | 1545-1710 | (tbd)         | (tbd)
TGA135 | KDTW-KBWI-KDTW | 1415-1515 | 1545-1645 | TU154B        | MyName
TGA131 | KCLT-KBWI-KCLT | 1420-1515 | 1545-1640 | (tbd)         | (tbd)
TGA122 | KRDU-KBWI-KRDU | 1430-1515 | 1545-1630 | (tbd)         | (tbd)
TGA118 | KPIT-KBWI-KPIT | 1435-1515 | 1545-1625 | Lockheed1049H | Yakko
TGA115 | KJFK-KBWI-KJFK | 1440-1515 | 1545-1620 | 737-300       | hovkid
-------+----------------+-----------+-----------+---------------+--------
TGA294 | KAUS-KSLC-KAUS | 1245-1515 | 1545-1815 | Concorde      | Jester
TGA279 | KMCI-KSLC-KMCI | 1305-1515 | 1545-1755 | (tbd)         | (tbd)
TGA259 | KSEA-KSLC-KSEA | 1330-1515 | 1545-1730 | (tbd)         | (tbd)
TGA251 | KLAX-KSLC-KLAX | 1345-1515 | 1545-1715 | dhc8          | MaverickAlex
TGA250 | KOAK-KSLC-KOAK | 1345-1515 | 1545-1715 | 787           | redneck
TGA244 | KPHX-KSLC-KPHX | 1355-1515 | 1545-1705 | 777-200ER     | zakalawe
TGA242 | KABQ-KSLC-KABQ | 1355-1515 | 1545-1705 | TU154B        | Tuxklok
TGA233 | KDEN-KSLC-KDEN | 1410-1515 | 1545-1650 | 777-200ER*    | Lukosius
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
  All times are UTC.  See http://transgear.treborlogic.com for more info.
* Will use Qantas add-on livery (http://www.goldencity.com.au/flightgear/Qantas_777-200ER.zip)
  List last updated Saturday, December 12th, 2009 @ 0410 UTC

Hello all... it's just under two weeks away, so it's about that time to start hashing out assignments for flights in December's TransGear event! This will hopefully include up to eight pilots and one or two controllers for the East ("Casual Division") hub, and up to eight pilots and DEFINITELY two controllers for the new West ("Procedural Division") hub!

Controllers... please let me know if you're SURE you are available. At least one of you needs to be fairly well-versed in Salt Lake City STARs and SIDs, to work Approach/Departure for the West hub. The tower controller for that location doesn't need to have quite all of that; perhaps maybe just the Missed Approach procedure.

Pilots... please, only volunteer for a West hub flight (200-level, into KSLC) if you are confident you can follow STARs and SIDs fairly accurately. The airport is at about 4200 feet, but the terrain in the approach area exceeds 10,000 in some spots, so if there's any kind of cloud deck and you aren't on a proscribed path, YOU WILL HIT A BIG ROCK! Those of you who know how to operate a plane but aren't as interested in learning all of the rigors of real-world approach procedures, and would just like to fly into and out of a controlled airspace for a day, please look primarily at the East hub (100-level) flights.

There are apparently some issues with some of the published procedures, so please talk with redneck before committing to a West hub flight so you know what you're getting into.

All, don't forget to look over http://transgear.treborlogic.com for the new "Approved Equipment" list, and any other changes to the site since your last visit, or especially if you are considering participating for the first time! All are welcome, but I do ask that you at least skim over the basic information contained on that site between now and December 12th.
Last edited by MD-Terp on Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:09 am, edited 7 times in total.
Cheers,
-Rob.

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Re: TransGear Airways, Saturday December 12, ALL TIMES UTC...

Postby hovkid » Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:37 pm

Hi, As I am still not familiar with SIDs and STARs, can you please put me down for the KJFK-KBWI-KJFK route in a 737-300.

Looking forward to this event!

Thanks,
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Re: TransGear Airways, Saturday December 12, ALL TIMES UTC...

Postby redneck » Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:58 pm

I expected you would have posted something about the sketchy STARs on the website, since chances are we'll be doing this again, and I would probably find myself repeating myself multiple times :roll: Oh well, I did mention about the issue briefly in last months thread, and if anyone needs more information about a particular STAR... hmm, well, I doubt it's still in my outbox. I only put the rich details in the pm I sent to MD-Terp :shock: Well, as long as we remember that, for most of the STARs, landing south is unreliable unless approaching from the West, I guess we'll be okay. If anyone can find charts that use something other than GPS fixes (as in not airnav.com), that would be the better choice. If possible, we'll have to use a lot of rnav.
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Re: TransGear Airways, Saturday December 12, ALL TIMES UTC...

Postby MD-Terp » Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:06 pm

Sorry, redneck. I'll fetch the info from my inbox...
Okay, looking at the table you made, the STARs typically used for 251 and below are manageable but incomplete. Also, they are most manageable landing North, but 250 is okay for landing North or South. I've tried DELTA3 and LEEHY3 for most of them. So far, WAATS3, which is ideal for approaches from the West seems to be the most usable.
Also, I've noticed that kslc is completely lacking buildings for me.
SKEES3 is also incomplete, but manageable.
And that's for all the STARs that would typically be used for those flights.

I wasn't sure what you meant by "251 and below" -- I assume that's "appraching KSLC from heading {...}"? And are you suggesting that all incoming aircraft should use only WAATS Three or SKEES Three for arrivals? And you say you tried DELTA Three and LEEHY Three but don't say whether they are usable enough or not? I'm lost. Please elaborate. Sorry if I'm a little slow to understand what you're trying to say.
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Re: TransGear Airways, Saturday December 12, ALL TIMES UTC...

Postby redneck » Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:33 pm

MD-Terp wrote:I wasn't sure what you meant by "251 and below"

I met the flight numbers as arranged in the table on your website. I simply got lazy about listing them. You don't really need to know which flight, just which STAR. I only noted which flights to make note of which STAR would typically be used with each flight.
MD-Terp wrote:And are you suggesting that all incoming aircraft should use only WAATS Three or SKEES Three for arrivals? And you say you tried DELTA Three and LEEHY Three but don't say whether they are usable enough or not? I'm lost. Please elaborate. Sorry if I'm a little slow to understand what you're trying to say.

Okay. DELTA3 generally sets incoming aircraft up to land South. The fixes used in that for landing South aren't in FG, and the turn from OGD, if you go directly to it from the South, is too sharp! So, that STAR can't be used.
LEEHY3 is safe to do landing North, even though FG does not have all of the fixes required to follow it perfectly. It's not reliable landing South, however, b/c it uses the same fixes for landing South as DELTA3.
WAATS3 is manageable landing either North or South, even though FG does not have all the fixes in its database for the STAR to be followed properly. I'm not saying this STAR is our only choice, but it's the most reliable one, as it works without too much trouble for landing from either side of the airport. I imagine though, as long as we check the METAR data of KSLC shortly after takeoff, the wind probably won't be changing by more than 90 degrees. So, if you think you can land North, and have a much more suitable approach in mind, I would go for that instead of WAATS3 to avoid delay.
SKEES3 is also very reliable, but it's only good for landing South without too much trouble. Despite the lack of some of the fixes in FG, I think the final waypoint is available, which takes you right into the ILS localiser for 16L. It will be a very easy turn.

Now, I'm not sure of the exact procedure for in the case that landing on the opposite side of the runway is more suitable when the STAR gives you a summarized version of an ILS approach to a specific runway and guides you straight in to the localiser. I hope this helps.
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Re: TransGear Airways, Saturday December 12, ALL TIMES UTC...

Postby Jester » Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:47 pm

I'll take TGA294 in the Concorde.
I really see no problems with the missing fixes, I can just put them into the flight plan by lat/lon (I had to do that for some points around KBWI too)
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Re: TransGear Airways, Saturday December 12, ALL TIMES UTC...

Postby redneck » Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:48 pm

Oh, I forgot to mention: the charts I looked at do not list coordinates for the fixes. And, I think I'll take TGA250 with the 787.
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Re: TransGear Airways, Saturday December 12, ALL TIMES UTC...

Postby Tuxklok » Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:10 pm

You can look up fixes on airnav.com and get coordinates, in some cases it also has radial and dme info defining the fix..skyvector.com is also useful for this.

cheers!
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Re: TransGear Airways, Saturday December 12, ALL TIMES UTC...

Postby yourgod » Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:29 pm

I'll take TGA154 in a 777. So far they haven't scheduled me for that day.

I'll work to practise navigating KSLC using charts between this event and the next and I'll try to take one of those routes then.
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Re: TransGear Airways, Saturday December 12, ALL TIMES UTC...

Postby redneck » Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:52 pm

Tuxklok wrote:You can look up fixes on airnav.com and get coordinates, in some cases it also has radial and dme info defining the fix..skyvector.com is also useful for this.

cheers!

Well, I was on airnav.com, and it wasn't detailed in the charts, so I guess I'd have to look elsewhere in the site. I'll check out skyvector after I eat. If I can understand their charts, then I think I might end up changing my flight. I'd really rather not have to resort to using GPS coordinates if it's possible.
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Re: TransGear Airways, Saturday December 12, ALL TIMES UTC...

Postby Tuxklok » Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:11 pm

Charts don't usually show coordinates, but go to http://www.airnav.com/airspace/fix/ and you can lookup the fix your interested in.

Put me down for TGA242 out of Albuquerque, will be using the tu154b.

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Re: TransGear Airways, Saturday December 12, ALL TIMES UTC...

Postby redneck » Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:21 pm

Thanks, I'll have to keep that in mind. Oh, wow, that's awesome. They even have it described as an offset from the nearest VOR. I can't wait for the new route manager in the next official release!!! Er, well... I'd rather not go through the trouble of getting the CVS version, but it's coming soon, I know it :mrgreen:
Well, I'm going to stick with the flight I have already anyway.
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Re: TransGear Airways, Saturday December 12, ALL TIMES UTC...

Postby wookierabbit » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:32 am

I'll take one of the controller positions for KSLC. I practiced ATC control using STARS and SIDs not to long ago with some other aircraft in the area. If that couldn't be done for any reason at all, I'll be fine to take up the KBWI controller position.

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Re: TransGear Airways, Saturday December 12, ALL TIMES UTC...

Postby Yakko » Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:33 am

I'm not sure I'm up to speed enough to do the KSLC routes (and most of them require getting up way earlier than I'm ready to) so I'd like to take my normal TGA118 from Pittsburgh to Baltimore.
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Re: TransGear Airways, Saturday December 12, ALL TIMES UTC...

Postby MD-Terp » Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:03 am

Wow. In the first twelve hours, we already have three pilots for each hub, and a full set of controllers (I think -- just waiting on confirmation from one). Thanks guys... your continued support overwhelms me! Keep the reservations coming!

I'm at work at the moment, so the website hasn't been updated with the first set of assignments, but I'll take care of that when I get home. For now, the list in the first post of this thread is current.
Cheers,
-Rob.

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