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berlin airlift

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berlin airlift

Postby butter330 » Thu Mar 17, 2022 9:37 pm

I have recently read a book about the Berlin airlift. The level of coordination and the sheer number of aircraft involved absolutely blew my mind.
I know 2022 isn't really the right year for an anniversary (started in 1948 and ended a year later). But I think doing something similar as a multiplayer-event in Flightgear would be great :D
Although it would require some personnel...
In 2019 there was a (real-life) celebration with some beautiful formation flying of those majestic old planes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeHYmZQt2eE

Thanks to some hardworking aircraft developers, we have a very nice DC-3/C-47 and a Lockheed Starliner to use (second one wasn't used I think). Sadly the DC-4 isn't that far in development. But the scenery around Berlin Tempelhof is quite decent.
You could give ATC-controllers at the home airports some freight-lists and the pilots would load and deliver the according weight.
There wasn't much going on for multiplayer in the past days. But when this is planned longer in advance maybe it can be made possible.

Edit: it's a Lockheed Super Constellation which couldn't be used, because it had it's first flight one year later. So the dc-3 is the only one available
Last edited by butter330 on Fri Mar 18, 2022 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: berlin airlift

Postby Ysop » Thu Mar 17, 2022 10:15 pm

Feel free to build up on this information:
https://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=39213&start=30#p396470

This is definitely an event worth doing! Good luck!
I am in, if I have time.
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Re: berlin airlift

Postby TheEagle » Fri Mar 18, 2022 4:31 pm

I'm definitely in, too ! :)
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Re: berlin airlift

Postby butter330 » Fri Mar 18, 2022 7:51 pm

Thanks for the positive feedback and the link! :o
I have never planed an event (and I'm not really an expert in proper flight planning) so I would need some help with that later on.
If the goal is to have a "bridge-like" more or less constant stream of planes, I think there would be 3 options:
- make everyone fly with 2x or 4x simulator speed (bad for realism but you could use the same airport as in that other event)

- use an airport that is closer by (ETNW or something in Hamburg) which wouldn't necessarily be less realistic as the RAF flew from there, but the airport doesn't look good in fgfs

- simply have lots of people. which would be nice but is realistically probably not feasible...

Also I'm not well informed about ATC and we would need at least 2 controllers
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Re: berlin airlift

Postby TheEagle » Fri Mar 18, 2022 7:56 pm

Well, you can always fly with one controller, and at the other airport just fly uncontrolled ? Also, if no one finds the time to do ATC, there is RedGriffinATC - a fairly good ATC addon IMO. It also offers spoken ATC.
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Re: berlin airlift

Postby butter330 » Sat Mar 19, 2022 11:06 pm

I don't know how important it is for the participants to be historically accurate, because there are some limiting factors like time and number of participants. I have come up with 2 routes that would be possible, plus the one mentioned by Ysop.

First one would be from Braunschweig-Wolfsburg airport (it is way better developed than the nearby airbase) which would result in a flight distance of just under 150 nm:
https://skyvector.com/?ll=52.3408210713 ... 24E%20EDDB (ignore EDDB as endpoint Tempelhof EDDI is at the last two Waypoints before EDDB)

Second one would be from Magdeburg which is also a well developed airport but it was in the soviet sector in 1948. However a big benefit is the distance to Berlin of about 90 nm:
https://skyvector.com/?ll=52.3985086785 ... 24E%20EDDB

Third option would be just to use the route of that last event:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=39213&start=30#p396470

You could make it even shorter by flying from an airport like Schonhagen (EDAZ). That's the point where the landing pattern gets longer than the actual flight :lol:
A shorter distance would maybe make it possible to deliver more than just one payload. What do you think is better?
Last edited by butter330 on Mon Mar 21, 2022 10:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: berlin airlift

Postby Ysop » Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:53 pm

In skyvector you can directly produce a link for the route and post it here. Button is to the right above the map.

The airport, which is really mostly remembered for the airlift is Tempelhof. So it might make sense to include it.

In case you are missing historic NDBs, it is really easy to put them into a file as a scenery addon for everyone.
Additionally it is important to specify, which aircraft is to be used. Otherwise there is only a blue/yellow glider to see for the others on multiplayer.

There is also a route Hamburg-Wannsee for seaplanes.
Some information can be found here https://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/showthread.php?311158-DC3-Airways-announces-Berlin-Airlift-series-2018! as well.

Our Wednesday group usually has about 4-10 pilots flying online. Certainly there is more potential for more for events published early. Maybe better on the weekend.
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Re: berlin airlift

Postby butter330 » Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:42 pm

I'm just not sure about the goal of the event. If it is to fly as historically accurate as possible, the best thing to do is just to go for the route from Frankfurt to Tempelhof. That would be great, but is was already flown.
To take that route would mean to fly one way because it takes quite long.
Flying from the north would maybe be shorter, but good seaplanes are rare and I don't think there is one from the 1940s/50s.
If you want to fly back and forth between the supply airport and Berlin, you would need a shorter flight time than 1:50h.
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Re: berlin airlift

Postby Ysop » Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:17 pm

Feel free to give the event the type you like :-)

But as it is a historic event, it would have its charm to make it realistic.

Not sure about the optimum length. During our evening flights 2h is a somewhat critical time, as more is difficult to schedule between other life commitments.

Maybe it is possible to prepare a route, for which accelerated speed is to be used between certain waypoints.

Also feel invited to use our Wednesdays as "test platform". We are always open for ideas.
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Re: berlin airlift

Postby TheEagle » Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:15 pm

butter330 wrote in Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:42 pm:good seaplanes are rare and I don't think there is one from the 1940s/50s.

Oh yes, there is at least one in FG: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_HU-16. There are two versions of it in FG - one quite detailed in JSBSim, and a less detailed one implemented with YASim.
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Re: berlin airlift

Postby Volador » Mon May 09, 2022 10:58 pm

Not sure if I'll have time for this Wednesday butter330, but it would be worth you reaching out to FGUK on their website on the forum subject "events this weeek" (yes 3 eee's) as they have a good following (and I think meet weekly) and you might get a fair few more aircraft at the event - it could be a really big event.

https://forum.fguk.me/categories/fguk-this-weeek
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Re: berlin airlift

Postby Ysop » Mon May 09, 2022 11:22 pm

butter, just to avoid any misunderstanding: We've picked up your proposal for this Wednesday.
If you are not ready, we can re-arrange.

Or we use it this Wednesday as a test event and organise the air lift in a larger style again on a different occasion.
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Re: berlin airlift

Postby butter330 » Tue May 10, 2022 10:55 am

No no it's completely fine for me. I'm looking forward to that ;-)
If it is possible and I don't make everybody feel bored about this topic it would of course be cool to repeat it with more people and more planes like Volador proposed. But I think that would need more preparation and would have to be scheduled much more in advance.
I have also tried the Grumman HU-16 sea plane and it would also be usable for more diversity in the fleet.
If it is ok and nobody feels disappointed I would totally call this Wednesday a test run even if nothing bigger follows.
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Re: berlin airlift

Postby Ysop » Tue May 10, 2022 11:22 am

Great, we are in for this!
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Re: berlin airlift

Postby Volador » Tue May 10, 2022 1:46 pm

I reached out to FGUK but not via their forum - the person concerned said we might not get a response this late but more importantly their experience of the DC3 was that it had, quote 'many, many' mulitiplayer issues (not that I can remember this from the last Berlin airlift event from last year) but it might be wise to test this out before a big event full of DC3's - it can really spoil an evening when there are tec issues
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