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World's Challenging Approaches - 10 |LPMA|17-11-2018|16:00Z|

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World's Challenging Approaches - 10 |LPMA|17-11-2018|16:00Z|

Postby V12 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:10 pm

Madeira - Runway on the poles.

Image

Madeira International Airport Cristiano Ronaldo, commonly known as Madeira Airport (Portuguese: Aeroporto da Madeira), or Funchal Airport (Aeroporto do Funchal) is an international airport in the civil parish of Santa Cruz in the Portuguese archipelago and autonomous region of Madeira. The airport is located 13.2 km (8.2 mi) east-northeast of the regional capital Funchal after which it is sometimes informally named. It mostly hosts flights to European metropolitan destinations due to the importance of Madeira as a leisure destination, and is pivotal in the movement of cargo in and out of the archipelago of Madeira. It is the fourth busiest airport in Portugal. The airport is named after Madeiran football player Cristiano Ronaldo.

The airport is considered one of the most peculiarly perilous airports in the world due to its location and its spectacular runway construction. It received the Outstanding Structure Award in 2004 by the International Association for Bridge and Structural Engineering. The History Channel program Most Extreme Airports ranked it as the ninth most dangerous airport in the world, and the third most dangerous in Europe. Pilots must undergo additional training to land at the airport.

Madeira Airport was officially opened on 18 July 1964, with two 1,600 m (5,249 ft) runways. The first flight ever to land was a TAP Air Portugal Lockheed Constellation with 80 passengers on board. The airport was once infamous for its short runway which, surrounded by high mountains and the ocean, made it a tricky landing for even the most experienced of pilots. The original runway was only 1,600 m (5,249 ft) long, but was extended by 200 m (656 ft) 8 years after the TAP Air Portugal Flight 425 crash of 1977.

In 2000, the runway was again extended this time to 2,781 m (9,124 ft). As landfill was not a realistic option, the extension was built on a platform, partly over the ocean, supported by 180 columns, each about 70 m (230 ft) tall. The extension of Madeira Airport was conducted by the Brazilian construction company Andrade Gutierrez, and is recognized worldwide as one of the most difficult to achieve due to the type of terrain and orography.

Its innovative solution allowed Funchal to receive the Outstanding Structure Award in 2004 by the International Association for Bridge and Structural Engineering, which aims at recognizing the most remarkable, innovative, creative or otherwise stimulating structure completed within the last few years.

Source : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madeira_Airport


When ?
Saturday, November, 17th. 2018, 1600Z

Aircraft of the choice :
B737, A320 or similar size jet airliner
My choice - Concorde (https://github.com/BAWV12/Concorde/archive/master.zip)

Route :
Depart LXGB - Gibraltar preferred runway 09
via TNG
Arrival LPMA - Funchal
630 nm, FL300, M0.7

Code: Select all
https://skyvector.com/?ll=31.53547174956205,-18.440551755639603&chart=304&zoom=4&fpl=%20LXGB%20BRAVO%20TNG%20LPMA


Approach :
We will use STAR LIDR1C , approach RNP Z rwy 05 :

Image


Scenery :
Standard terrasync scenery, LPMA is very nice developed airport :

Image
Fly high, fly fast - fly Concorde !
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Re: World's Challenging Approaches - 10 |LPMA|17-11-2018|16:

Postby Lester » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:25 pm

Seems to be challenging indeed :)
If there is some interest, and if the seat is free, I can propose ATC services in the region (GND to APP/DEP) around 1500Z to 1900Z on Saturday, respecting the challenge runway and approach.

(and I expect to handle some missed approaches eheh)
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Re: World's Challenging Approaches - 10 |LPMA|17-11-2018|16:

Postby V12 » Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:54 pm

Thank You it will be very nice.
Fly high, fly fast - fly Concorde !
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Re: World's Challenging Approaches - 10 |LPMA|17-11-2018|16:

Postby Alant » Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:28 pm

The current Terasync vesrion does not model this amazing runway very well. The concrete pillars are not there, and the runway end is cut into the hill.
I don´t believe that there is a simple solution to building a runway like that with Flightgear´s scenery tools (Terragear). Having built a few airfields already I guess that I am in a position to do something about it, but am busy on my TSR2 WIP project (using photogrametry and Blender to produce a more accurate cockpit). I can give it a go when I need a break from that project, unless someone else gets there first.
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Re: World's Challenging Approaches - 10 |LPMA|17-11-2018|16:

Postby Catalanoic » Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:38 pm

yes, it lacks the column part of the airport but the rest is well developed. if someone can do that part would be very appreciated, i think we need something creative between a 3d model and terragear, maybe similar to the taxiway bridge in Frankfurt
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Re: World's Challenging Approaches - 10 |LPMA|17-11-2018|16:

Postby Alant » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:08 pm

I will look to see how that was done.

My Brooklands (EGLB https://github.com/alanjt/EGLB ) is inside a banked car race circuit which you can probably taxi upon, but runways have special treatment within Terragear. Mixing ac3d models and scenery terrain can produce invisble holes, or invisble bumps on the ground surface, both of which cause the aircraft to react accordingly - as I found to my cost when making EGLB.

Terragear (Flightgear´s scenery generation program) is currently not very reliable and this makes scenery generation rather hit or miss. Perhaps it will be ok at LPMA, or perhaps not. I do not know until I try. Terragear development seems to have stopped again.

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Re: World's Challenging Approaches - 10 |LPMA|17-11-2018|16:

Postby wkitty42 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:12 pm

Alant wrote in Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:28 pm:The current Terasync vesrion does not model this amazing runway very well. The concrete pillars are not there, and the runway end is cut into the hill.
I don´t believe that there is a simple solution to building a runway like that with Flightgear´s scenery tools (Terragear).


there is, actually... one of the tools has an angle option that needs to be adjusted for highly angled runways... i don't know which tool or what the option name is but it was pointed out in these forums or on the mailing list... it would be used for that specific tile section only, though... otherwise other sections will not be handled properly...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: World's Challenging Approaches - 10 |LPMA|17-11-2018|16:

Postby legoboyvdlp » Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:30 pm

Madeira's runway looks like this:

Image

which terragear probably cannot support :(

one thing you could do is put a square box in the hill with a concrete pillar texture, so you don't see the hill (the textured face hides it), you only see the pillars.
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Re: World's Challenging Approaches - 10 |LPMA|17-11-2018|16:

Postby V12 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:14 pm

Gibraltar sunset :

Image

Waiting for the event :

Image
Fly high, fly fast - fly Concorde !
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Re: World's Challenging Approaches - 10 |LPMA|17-11-2018|16:

Postby Octal450 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:54 pm

V12 wrote:737, A320 or similar size jet airliner
My choice - Concorde (https://github.com/BAWV12/Concorde/archive/master.zip)


Lol....

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Re: World's Challenging Approaches - 10 |LPMA|17-11-2018|16:

Postby V12 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:53 pm

Concorde can land at Leeds Bradford with runway length 7400 feets. At Funchal, runway is 8100 feets long. I have 700 feets in reserve. And this is World's Challenging Approaches :) More challenging is landing at Gibraltar, but with minimum fuel, special braking procedure and few knots of the headwind is possible to do it without swimsuits relative safely. But there is other nasty problem - takeoff is limited to 67 tons of fuel, nose and visor up, full power on full brakes. When fuel flow rise over 18 tons/hour, release brake and pray to reheat not fail. RTO is not possibe, You have only 1 attempt.
I found too powerfull brakes on many planes in the FG, I fixed it on Concorde, check viewtopic.php?p=326250#p326250
Fly high, fly fast - fly Concorde !
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Re: World's Challenging Approaches - 10 |LPMA|17-11-2018|16:

Postby Catalanoic » Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:57 am

IDG A320 with Vueling livery, see you in Gibraltar
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Re: World's Challenging Approaches - 10 |LPMA|17-11-2018|16:

Postby legoboyvdlp » Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:06 pm

sorry - I had a fg crash and no time to start new flight. I was looking out the right window and a tile with the island of LPPS loaded and then it crashed, so perhaps I ran out of memory...
thanks for the ATC service!
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Re: World's Challenging Approaches - 10 |LPMA|17-11-2018|16:

Postby Lester » Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:53 pm

legoboyvdlp wrote in Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:06 pm:sorry - I had a fg crash and no time to start new flight. I was looking out the right window and a tile with the island of LPPS loaded and then it crashed, so perhaps I ran out of memory...
thanks for the ATC service!


no problem, it was a very nice event, thanks everybody for coming!
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Re: World's Challenging Approaches - 10 |LPMA|17-11-2018|16:

Postby pavlin » Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:00 pm

I am going to create a video for you guys!!! Recorded all landings and I'll post them in my YouTube.
During severe issues with navigation on FlightGear I will not create any type of content until I buy myself new pc. That might be in years from now.
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