KL-666 wrote:I do not know what the idea behind the festival locations is, but as i have experienced it, it is about discovering lesser used areas. In that light Scandinavia is a very good one. But central Europe not at all. Germany, Benelux and France are often well populated with ATC and pilots. I would not even mention them in the poll.
Looking at the UK and Ireland a bit more, i see a huge advantage in being able to have a 100% builtup airports. Gatwick-Edinburg-Dublin Could be a good base triangle. But there are so many more to choose from. All London airports are developed. Further there are Londonderry, Newcastle, Liverpool, Hull, Cardiff, and many more.
Sure a few military airports are used by fguk. But being military is a totally different category from the mostly civil festival. There is no chance of interference, and finally the fine British civil airports will become known to the greater public.
Btw. Can the "UK and Ireland" be mentioned as such in the poll, and not by those 2 specific airports EGOD and EGNS?
Lydiot wrote in Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:29 am:With so many suggestions for where to hold the festival I think the productive thing might be to discuss how to figure out if an area is good, meaning what parameters are important.
IAHM-COL wrote:The decision is not about Airports, but areas, thou. Example, if the poll decides to choose for lets say the US SouthWest, where KLAS, KLAX, KPHX and other airports are clearly developed, as Lydiot suggests, any participant can choose where to serve. And, per example, one could choose serving KSAN instead. There is nothing compelling the participant. In addition, clearly having a mix of developed and undeveloped may at least create the option that some scenery gets developed. So there 's a good payoff, as shown by our last Fall Festival. Just food for thought
simbambim wrote:It is more advantageous to fly two flights of 200 nm (possibly on different routes) while being controlled 100% of the time (taking into account the radar range is 100 nm) and having two take-offs and landings and thus maximum interaction with the ATC than to fly one flight of 400 nm and be controlled only the first 100 and the last 100 nm, spending half of the flight time or about an hour en-route doing nothing. This is what happened in this Festival. We ended up basically with two controlled airports: one on the easternmost, the other one on the westernmost edge of the area 440 nm apart and the middle was empty. (Samedan was more for GA; Innsbruck was scheduled for the first day, too, but did the ATC ever show up? I didn't see it controlled, though I might have missed it.) And some ATCs applied in the last minute and were prevented by technical problems (OR map server).
Jabberwocky wrote:@simbambim: I think, that calls for two main routes, one 100% controlled, the other for the usual chit chat flights and a playground area somewhere to the side for other parts of the festival that this time got lost (like some acrobatics). One of the implicit ideas this time was, that LOWI would replace the stunt flying because landing there is a stunt on its own. But then, I had the most entertaining moment late at night with Ray, Mark, Sandi, SP, and the rest of this nightwol bunch at LOWI, despite coming in with both engines dead as glider in a Bf-110. I did the landing, as intended on the grass next to the runway after 12 nm gliding in, I only used the brakes to hard in the end and flipped her on the nose. So the formula for the festival appears to me as
- 1 controlled main route
- 1 partially controlled route with chit chat gap in between the endpoints
- 1 crazy area, just for the fun of it.
IAHM-COL wrote:The decision is not about Airports, but areas, thou. Example, if the poll decides to choose for lets say the US SouthWest, where KLAS, KLAX, KPHX and other airports are clearly developed, as Lydiot suggests, any participant can choose where to serve. And, per example, one could choose serving KSAN instead. There is nothing compelling the participant. In addition, clearly having a mix of developed and undeveloped may at least create the option that some scenery gets developed. So there 's a good payoff, as shown by our last Fall Festival. Just food for thought
simbambim wrote:If we want to get the most out of ATC, I do think we have to plan the airports more carefully.
It is more advantageous to fly two flights of 200 nm (possibly on different routes) while being controlled 100% of the time (taking into account the radar range is 100 nm) and having two take-offs and landings and thus maximum interaction with the ATC than to fly one flight of 400 nm and be controlled only the first 100 and the last 100 nm, spending half of the flight time or about an hour en-route doing nothing. This is what happened in this Festival. We ended up basically with two controlled airports: one on the easternmost, the other one on the westernmost edge of the area 440 nm apart and the middle was empty. (Samedan was more for GA; Innsbruck was scheduled for the first day, too, but did the ATC ever show up? I didn't see it controlled, though I might have missed it.) And some ATCs applied in the last minute and were prevented by technical problems (OR map server).
Jabberwocky wrote:@simbambim: I think, that calls for two main routes, one 100% controlled, the other for the usual chit chat flights and a playground area somewhere to the side for other parts of the festival that this time got lost (like some acrobatics).
Lydiot wrote in Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:40 pm:Speaking of that; one thing I missed this year was an ATC at LOWI. I dug up the charts and did several landings there accordingly (737) and it was an interesting approach. Perhaps that's something to consider - at least one airport with some interesting navigation features.
Lydiot wrote in Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:40 pm:I don't think the idea of the Festival is to bring people to lesser used areas. We've had 3 festivals so far, and Spain, Switzerland and Austria are clearly very well visited. And the last festival was in an area that also gets some visitors, though not as many as the others. So I don't see that it has been the goal. If it had been, we would have done China, India or some African country already.... or maybe Central America.
Jabberwocky wrote:As of yet, South America had one festival, Europe already two. Therefore I advocate Africa, Asia and North-America, just to balance it out a bit. Which makes the idea of Fall in Japan (kind fo an operation cherry-blossom, isn't it?) and N-America reasonable to me.
simbambim wrote:The Fall festival is always in Europe. This is as per the rules.
Lydiot wrote in Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:40 pm:And speaking of that: I don't think there were any "games" this year, unless I missed it. METAL, who I believe started it all, originally called it "Festival and minigames". I think it would be nice to incorporate the gaming aspect (again?).
Lydiot wrote in Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:40 pm:- Training sessions for pilots on both aircraft and ATC procedures; not really a 'minigame', but still maybe a good thing; if people are willing. I'm thinking that if new people show up to the festival they could go to an airport where someone that is good at flying a 777 for example can guide them on how to use the plane to a basic level - meaning anything from "you gotta have flaps when taking off/landing" to "here's how you fly on a DME radial on arrival". I'm thinking anything from the 172 up to the 747s. And of course the same could be done with an ATC. Simply connect and talk to a friendly ATC who explains what to do and when. It could perhaps be good for those that are intimidated by flying both more "advanced" aircraft/systems and under an ATC, allowing them to learn something new and also 'fit' into the festival quickly.
elgaton wrote in Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:37 pm:The Andes were proposed by KL-666 as another alternative due to the large number of high altitude airports (even though one edition of the Festival already took place in South America).
elgaton wrote in Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:37 pm:simbambim replied the Fall edition has always taken place in Europe.
elgaton wrote in Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:37 pm:The idea is nice, but I don't think there would be time to do so in a single session.Training sessions for pilots on both aircraft and ATC procedures
Lydiot wrote in Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:03 am:elgaton wrote in Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:37 pm:simbambim replied the Fall edition has always taken place in Europe.
As far as I remember there never was a reason for that other than that it won in the polls. Nobody as far as I recall suggested that it had to be in Europe at least once per year (or every fall). We've only done it twice so far, so it's barely even a pattern. I actually think Europe has a great deal to offer, but I don't think it's necessary to have it there.
elgaton wrote in Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:08 am:The Festival of FlightGear is a biannual "fly-in" event taking place in Spring and Fall:
- the Spring edition is held in March in a region outside Europe;
- the Fall edition is held in Europe and coincides with the FSWeekend "real world event" at Lelystad.
IAHM-COL wrote:For those uninformed, the Festival is a biannual event. It takes places on Spring and Fall. The fall Festival coincides with FSWeekend, and the Spring festival is distanced by about 6 months away.
The Spring Festival is held anywhere in the World (hopefully, except Europe), whereas the Fall festival is held in Europe.
Lydiot wrote in Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:03 am:I suppose my view is that of a balance between choosing an erea and its available airports.
Lydiot wrote in Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:03 am:To me, it doesn't have to be much more complicated than, say, a 777 "clinic" from 10am to 1pm, where someone willing to share can stay at an airport and in a channel discuss how to fly the "stock" 777, ranging from basics to more in depth answers. I don't necessarily think there'd be too many participants. And come to think of it, not all have to be complete newbies either. It could be that someone is good at flying the c172, but doesn't want to deal with the 707, or can't figure out how the 747-400 differs in its current implementation compared to the 777..... Know what I mean?...
simbambim wrote in Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:46 am:I didn't make this up. It's there in the first post of the threads on both forums:elgaton wrote in Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:08 am:The Festival of FlightGear is a biannual "fly-in" event taking place in Spring and Fall:
- the Spring edition is held in March in a region outside Europe;
- the Fall edition is held in Europe and coincides with the FSWeekend "real world event" at Lelystad.
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