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The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16

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Re: The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16 (+ideas for Fall

Postby legoboyvdlp » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:36 pm

Since Hamburg is often controlled nowadays, possibly it could be included, since it is after all in the North of Deutschland!
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Re: The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16 (+ideas for Fall

Postby danielHL » Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:06 pm

Hamburg would be great. Germanys only Airport with crossing runways - and D-JSB and myself are able to control it with real procedures (we both live here :) ). Several other German airports are just one hour away and nicely developed and regularly controlled. EDDT in Berlin is nice, as is EDDC in Dresden. I need not say anything about EDDF with Jomo, and I've seen capable ATCs in EDDM/Munich as well.

Personally, I like the scandinavian Airports a lot since i travel there sometimes. But for my taste they are a bit close together (it's >1h). And except from Copenhagen where the Oresund Bridge, the Airport location on an Island and many wind turbines most of them are situated in barren wasteland. Flying over the southern part of Sweden is also pretty boring and there aren't many airways, navaids or intersections. The norwegian coast is absolutely stunning though. Approaches into EDNT/Tromsö which is a small city on an island in the middle of a larger fjord in northern Norway are spectacular. I've been there myself lately and did the 5deg approach over high ridges in a large A320 simulator. If it's going to be Scandinavia, I would like to include EDNT and maybe control it myself ;)

I probably won't attend the spring festival - so no opinion there.

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Re: The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16 (+ideas for Fall

Postby stuart » Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:08 pm

Hi All,

I'm fine with cross-posting details of the Festival from the other forum. However, I'm not OK with cross-posting personal attacks or denigration of the project from those who have been banned from this forum.

Please can those doing the cross-posting take care. I've edited some of the above posts to remove such criticism.

Thanks

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Re: The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16 (+ideas for Fall

Postby Lydiot » Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:29 am

With so many suggestions for where to hold the festival I think the productive thing might be to discuss how to figure out if an area is good, meaning what parameters are important. For example: I would have thought that already developed airports would be preferable simply because there's no guarantee that people can actually develop enough new airports for an area to be interesting. And that of course assumes that we care about airports in the first place. Someone else mentioned that people would create new ones. I'm just worrying that someone would commit but then not be able to carry it out.

A similar question can be asked about previously controlled airports. In other words, is it important that an airport has been controlled by someone already, or can new ATCs get/make charts and learn the necessary procedures.

So that's where I think we should probably start the conversation, because once we have a clear idea of what we are looking for it becomes much easier to at least exclude some areas. Again, my priorities would probably be:

- Already developed airports.
- Interesting and varying topography (mountains/valleys, oceans/lakes etc)

PS: I'm not saying we should reach consensus on it, but perhaps it'd be good to discuss it to figure out what we really want (individually).
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Re: The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16 (+ideas for Fall

Postby elgaton » Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:54 am

Crossposting and summarizing discussions on the other forum:

KL-666 wrote:I do not know what the idea behind the festival locations is, but as i have experienced it, it is about discovering lesser used areas. In that light Scandinavia is a very good one. But central Europe not at all. Germany, Benelux and France are often well populated with ATC and pilots. I would not even mention them in the poll.

Looking at the UK and Ireland a bit more, i see a huge advantage in being able to have a 100% builtup airports. Gatwick-Edinburg-Dublin Could be a good base triangle. But there are so many more to choose from. All London airports are developed. Further there are Londonderry, Newcastle, Liverpool, Hull, Cardiff, and many more.

Sure a few military airports are used by fguk. But being military is a totally different category from the mostly civil festival. There is no chance of interference, and finally the fine British civil airports will become known to the greater public.

Btw. Can the "UK and Ireland" be mentioned as such in the poll, and not by those 2 specific airports EGOD and EGNS?

Indeed, many airports there could be used as bases.
---
Regarding my China proposal: agree on the feedback - I had in mind Eastern China as it's not far from the sea and other islands. Thumbs up for the Japan proposal as well. I also agree with KL-666's post above - we could also ask the FGUK guys if some of them are willing to participate and controllers, and interference won't be a problem (they focus on military operations and I can give them ample prior notice so we can coordinate).

As for the selection criteria suggested by Lydiot, I'd throw another one into the mix - choosing areas that are not controlled regularly. One of the goals of the Festival is bringing people to new places. (Of course, we should still check if there are developed airports in the area, but (1) I hope we will have World Scenery 3.0 ready, at least for the Fall edition, and (2) failing that, pommesschranke has developed a tool to convert X-Plane airports - including 3D objects - to FlightGear custom scenery.) The AIP availability question is important as well (having up-to-date OpenRadar files is essential - they can be prepared relatively quickly though).
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Re: The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16 (+ideas for Fall

Postby Lydiot » Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:40 pm

I don't think the idea of the Festival is to bring people to lesser used areas. We've had 3 festivals so far, and Spain, Switzerland and Austria are clearly very well visited. And the last festival was in an area that also gets some visitors, though not as many as the others. So I don't see that it has been the goal. If it had been, we would have done China, India or some African country already.... or maybe Central America.

Having said that the UK sounds nice, and possibly Scandinavia, if we get enough of Norway's nature included (because flat is boring, and that's what we get in mid-south Sweden, Denmark and Finland... lot's of lakes though).

I agree with elgaton that using places where there isn't regular control is a good idea. That to me seems like a parameter that can develop pretty easily.

Speaking of that; one thing I missed this year was an ATC at LOWI. I dug up the charts and did several landings there accordingly (737) and it was an interesting approach. Perhaps that's something to consider - at least one airport with some interesting navigation features. I think there are threads on challenging approaches and landings, and some that I can recall are TNCM (short runway, mountain on takeoff), MHTG, Lukla, Paro, I hear Laguardia has a reputation for some reason..... So, anyway, is that something to consider?

And speaking of that: I don't think there were any "games" this year, unless I missed it. METAL, who I believe started it all, originally called it "Festival and minigames". I think it would be nice to incorporate the gaming aspect (again?).

So here are a few suggestions to ponder:


- A 'limits' event where at a 'difficult' airport we get the largest airplane allowed, at close to max landing weight, and land according to charts, with ATC. I landed at MHTG several times and thought, "big deal", until I did it according to charts with a relatively heavy 737 in windy conditions. That was fun and challenging. I think Kai Tak is an obvious candidate if in China.

- An 'adverse weather' event, where we land at an airport where the weather is adverse (possibly with a custom weather string applied to ensure an equal experience, and guaranteed poor weather). Could be super-low visibility or very gusty or a high constant crosswind....

- An 'acrobatics' event for those that are into that, where pilots maneuver through a course that's challenging. I'm thinking fighter jets or props. That's why I was suggesting the US west coast since the Grand Canyon would be a great choice. If there are sections in Norway's fjords that are similar it could be done there too, or using other obvious landmarks.

Those 'minigames' could maybe be scored, or just for fun. I think it's an aspect the original guy thought of that somehow got lost in the shuffle.

- Training sessions for pilots on both aircraft and ATC procedures; not really a 'minigame', but still maybe a good thing; if people are willing. I'm thinking that if new people show up to the festival they could go to an airport where someone that is good at flying a 777 for example can guide them on how to use the plane to a basic level - meaning anything from "you gotta have flaps when taking off/landing" to "here's how you fly on a DME radial on arrival". I'm thinking anything from the 172 up to the 747s. And of course the same could be done with an ATC. Simply connect and talk to a friendly ATC who explains what to do and when. It could perhaps be good for those that are intimidated by flying both more "advanced" aircraft/systems and under an ATC, allowing them to learn something new and also 'fit' into the festival quickly.

Just some thoughts.
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Re: The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16 (+ideas for Fall

Postby simbambim » Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:08 pm

Lydiot wrote in Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:29 am:With so many suggestions for where to hold the festival I think the productive thing might be to discuss how to figure out if an area is good, meaning what parameters are important.

Several routes to choose among (at least 3 controlled airports).
Distance between airports that is reasonable for an airliner, but not too long so that a maximum number of flights can be made with the maximum interaction with the ATC within their activity time (200-300 nm).
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Re: The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16 (+ideas for Fall

Postby elgaton » Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:37 pm

Crossposting/summarizing (again) - apologies as I'm a bit late (that happens when you're following the forum and writing your Master's thesis at the same time):
  • The list of proposals was updated (IAHM-COL retired his proposal for France/Germany/Benelux as he agreed with KL-666 - those areas are often manned by controllers). I'm updating the previous post adding this note (however, since danielHL has stated his support for Germany, I'll leave that choice).
  • IAHM-COL wrote:The decision is not about Airports, but areas, thou. Example, if the poll decides to choose for lets say the US SouthWest, where KLAS, KLAX, KPHX and other airports are clearly developed, as Lydiot suggests, any participant can choose where to serve. And, per example, one could choose serving KSAN instead. There is nothing compelling the participant. In addition, clearly having a mix of developed and undeveloped may at least create the option that some scenery gets developed. So there 's a good payoff, as shown by our last Fall Festival. Just food for thought
  • The Andes were proposed by KL-666 as another alternative due to the large number of high altitude airports (even though one edition of the Festival already took place in South America).
  • Jabberwocky suggested to hold both editions of the Festival in areas other than Europe/South America for variety, simbambim replied the Fall edition has always taken place in Europe.
  • Regarding the airports, we need to decide them carefully:
    simbambim wrote:It is more advantageous to fly two flights of 200 nm (possibly on different routes) while being controlled 100% of the time (taking into account the radar range is 100 nm) and having two take-offs and landings and thus maximum interaction with the ATC than to fly one flight of 400 nm and be controlled only the first 100 and the last 100 nm, spending half of the flight time or about an hour en-route doing nothing. This is what happened in this Festival. We ended up basically with two controlled airports: one on the easternmost, the other one on the westernmost edge of the area 440 nm apart and the middle was empty. (Samedan was more for GA; Innsbruck was scheduled for the first day, too, but did the ATC ever show up? I didn't see it controlled, though I might have missed it.) And some ATCs applied in the last minute and were prevented by technical problems (OR map server).

    Jabberwocky wrote:@simbambim: I think, that calls for two main routes, one 100% controlled, the other for the usual chit chat flights and a playground area somewhere to the side for other parts of the festival that this time got lost (like some acrobatics). One of the implicit ideas this time was, that LOWI would replace the stunt flying because landing there is a stunt on its own. But then, I had the most entertaining moment late at night with Ray, Mark, Sandi, SP, and the rest of this nightwol bunch at LOWI, despite coming in with both engines dead as glider in a Bf-110. I did the landing, as intended on the grass next to the runway after 12 nm gliding in, I only used the brakes to hard in the end and flipped her on the nose. So the formula for the festival appears to me as

    - 1 controlled main route
    - 1 partially controlled route with chit chat gap in between the endpoints
    - 1 crazy area, just for the fun of it.

    to which simbambim replied that casual flight don't need planning as they are readily available everywhere.
  • The Festival should also offer more than controlled flights: for example, during the first edition, air-to-air refuelling was available and the idea was to have some sub-events (e.g. minigames, aerobatic flights) as well. If UK/Ireland is chosen, FGUK might be involved, but their participation shouldn't be an essential factor in our choice.
---
Now, on to my personal comments:
IAHM-COL wrote:The decision is not about Airports, but areas, thou. Example, if the poll decides to choose for lets say the US SouthWest, where KLAS, KLAX, KPHX and other airports are clearly developed, as Lydiot suggests, any participant can choose where to serve. And, per example, one could choose serving KSAN instead. There is nothing compelling the participant. In addition, clearly having a mix of developed and undeveloped may at least create the option that some scenery gets developed. So there 's a good payoff, as shown by our last Fall Festival. Just food for thought

simbambim wrote:If we want to get the most out of ATC, I do think we have to plan the airports more carefully.
It is more advantageous to fly two flights of 200 nm (possibly on different routes) while being controlled 100% of the time (taking into account the radar range is 100 nm) and having two take-offs and landings and thus maximum interaction with the ATC than to fly one flight of 400 nm and be controlled only the first 100 and the last 100 nm, spending half of the flight time or about an hour en-route doing nothing. This is what happened in this Festival. We ended up basically with two controlled airports: one on the easternmost, the other one on the westernmost edge of the area 440 nm apart and the middle was empty. (Samedan was more for GA; Innsbruck was scheduled for the first day, too, but did the ATC ever show up? I didn't see it controlled, though I might have missed it.) And some ATCs applied in the last minute and were prevented by technical problems (OR map server).

Jabberwocky wrote:@simbambim: I think, that calls for two main routes, one 100% controlled, the other for the usual chit chat flights and a playground area somewhere to the side for other parts of the festival that this time got lost (like some acrobatics).

I fully agree with simbambim in the sense that full ATC coverage (at the very least two ATCs at the departure/arrival airport and a radar controller, possibly "the full package" - including separate delivery/ground positions) is the best for those pilots who want to fly in a controlled environment. As others correctly noted, it would have been ideal to have another controller cover western Austria, up to Switzerland. (I remember KL-666 making the same observation regarding the South American edition of the Festival - Ambro deciding to control Porto Alegre at the last minute was a godsend and also brought much more traffic). It's also a shame that, this year, both the FGCom and the mapserver went unexpectedly down just before the event, but I'm fairly sure it won't happen next time.
On the contrary, I partly disagree with IAHM-COL: while it's true that we choose to hold the Festival in a specific area, and not at two/three aerodromes, airports play an important role. If, as simbambim said, we want to offer a fun experience to pilots, it's more or less a given that we should control two airports that are at most an hour/an hour and a half of flight time apart and that can accommodate jetliners, and that at least one of them should accept GA/be near a GA field. The Spanish festival, in this respect, was (in my opinion) the most successful one so far: LEBL had a nice landscape around it, many airports within easy reach (Maiorca/Madrid/Bilbao) and Sabadell (for GA) was near. Of course, we shouldn't decide to hold the Festival at a particular airport rather than in an area, but available fields must be evaluated carefully.

On the same note:
Lydiot wrote in Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:40 pm:Speaking of that; one thing I missed this year was an ATC at LOWI. I dug up the charts and did several landings there accordingly (737) and it was an interesting approach. Perhaps that's something to consider - at least one airport with some interesting navigation features.

I agree, that could definitely be considered. For example, should an edition take place in South-East Asia, Hong Kong/Kai Tak could be included as well? (I haven't checked the airports and their distances so far, I'll get back on this as soon as I've had a look). I also agree with respect to LOWI, though I think the mapserver outage also played a part here.

Lydiot wrote in Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:40 pm:I don't think the idea of the Festival is to bring people to lesser used areas. We've had 3 festivals so far, and Spain, Switzerland and Austria are clearly very well visited. And the last festival was in an area that also gets some visitors, though not as many as the others. So I don't see that it has been the goal. If it had been, we would have done China, India or some African country already.... or maybe Central America.

Jabberwocky wrote:As of yet, South America had one festival, Europe already two. Therefore I advocate Africa, Asia and North-America, just to balance it out a bit. Which makes the idea of Fall in Japan (kind fo an operation cherry-blossom, isn't it?) and N-America reasonable to me.

simbambim wrote:The Fall festival is always in Europe. This is as per the rules.

I (partially) agree with Jabberwocky in the sense that we should introduce some variety in the areas we choose (speaking from an ATC perspective, on condition charts are available). However, I'm dubious regarding moving the Fall edition to a place other than Europe since:
  • most controllers are based there, and "casual" discover of the Festival by pilots who don't follow the forum, in my opinion, plays an important role (they might just have a look at the MPMap, see the traffic, spawn at one of the controlled airports and learn about the event);
  • for the same reason, pilots can potentially fly to more controlled airports - not just the ones participating in the event.
(Clarifying what I wrote in my previous post, as I was imprecise - so far, the Fall edition was held in Europe for the two reasons I mentioned above, and only the Spring edition was held in a "regularly uncontrolled" area with the explicit intent of having pilots fly somewhere unusual).

Lydiot wrote in Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:40 pm:And speaking of that: I don't think there were any "games" this year, unless I missed it. METAL, who I believe started it all, originally called it "Festival and minigames". I think it would be nice to incorporate the gaming aspect (again?).

There weren't any games this year, and yes, it would be nice to have them (even though they were quite limited even in the previous editions). I don't have experience in acrobatic flying/challenges, though, so I'll let others discuss this.

Lydiot wrote in Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:40 pm:- Training sessions for pilots on both aircraft and ATC procedures; not really a 'minigame', but still maybe a good thing; if people are willing. I'm thinking that if new people show up to the festival they could go to an airport where someone that is good at flying a 777 for example can guide them on how to use the plane to a basic level - meaning anything from "you gotta have flaps when taking off/landing" to "here's how you fly on a DME radial on arrival". I'm thinking anything from the 172 up to the 747s. And of course the same could be done with an ATC. Simply connect and talk to a friendly ATC who explains what to do and when. It could perhaps be good for those that are intimidated by flying both more "advanced" aircraft/systems and under an ATC, allowing them to learn something new and also 'fit' into the festival quickly.

The idea is nice, but I don't think there would be time to do so in a single session. During my ATC events at LIPX, I had the opportunity to train some inexperienced pilots (casual fliers who knew a bit about proper plane handling and nothing at all about phraseology): it took several hours to explain just some basic ATC phraseology and making them do a simple circuit (delivery + taxi + takeoff + landing at the same airport). Maybe it would be better to:
  1. expand the documentation on the wiki (embedding videos where needed - see e.g. the FlightGear HowTo series by osjcag, which, although a bit dated, is still excellent), and then
  2. invite pilots to come to the ATC practice sessions held two weeks before the Festival, so that they can do some practice and ask questions if they have doubts, but asking them to read the relevant wiki pages in advance? Of course, we'll be friendly and let them practice at a slower pace, but we'll rely on the fact they have at least a basic grasp of the needed concepts.
Also, danielHL, since you have already done that in the past, could you please share how it went?
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Re: The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16 (+ideas for Fall

Postby elgaton » Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:46 pm

Regarding the poll, IAHM-COL and me have just proposed what follows:

  • A single poll will be created for both (Spring + Fall) editions, just like it was done last year.
  • As polls on this forum are limited to 15 choices and the current list of candidate areas has currently 16 items, IAHM-COL will drop one of his proposals by Tuesday if no one else does.
  • The poll will be opened next Tuesday and will run for 15 days.
  • Each forum member will have two votes (each one of them ideally corresponds to an edition).
  • As IAHM-COL, Jabberwocky and Skyboat are banned or retired from this forum, they will tell me their votes (in anonymized form), I'll post them here.
  • The two areas with the highest number of votes will be chosen for the two next editions. Once the areas are chosen, we will discuss and decide the airports that will be manned during the events.

Let me know if you have any feedback.
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Re: The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16 (+ideas for Fall

Postby MIG29pilot » Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:01 pm

Right, I assume we add Jwocky's, Israel's, and Skyboat's after the poll has finished?
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Re: The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16 (+ideas for Fall

Postby elgaton » Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:23 pm

That's correct.
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Re: The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16 (+ideas for Fall

Postby Lydiot » Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:03 pm

elgaton wrote in Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:37 pm:The Andes were proposed by KL-666 as another alternative due to the large number of high altitude airports (even though one edition of the Festival already took place in South America).


Sounds nice. Good suggestion in and by itself.

elgaton wrote in Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:37 pm:simbambim replied the Fall edition has always taken place in Europe.


As far as I remember there never was a reason for that other than that it won in the polls. Nobody as far as I recall suggested that it had to be in Europe at least once per year (or every fall). We've only done it twice so far, so it's barely even a pattern. I actually think Europe has a great deal to offer, but I don't think it's necessary to have it there.

- Selection of airports and possible routes and control:

To me at least it seems that we could look at it as a top-down approach maybe (sorry for the poor choice of words). We could pick and choose a "most-controlled" scenario under which any lesser control is possible. In other words a whole area couldb e covered, as it was (planned) in Spain, but nobody who didn't want to participate in control had to. And I think the same applies to chosen airports: Just because there may be a lot of airports suitable for control in an area doesn't mean they have to be.

And to me it seems to be prudent then to again point out that it's hard to count on people showing up and doing what they promised to do. And that's not to blame people, only to say that stuff happens in real life, and that affects people here. So I was really looking forward to LOWI ATC, and it didn't materialize. I think there was someone at Samedan briefly, but the person got bored after 30 minutes or whatever, and left. Now, I don't mind planning, I think it's a good thing, but it was interesting that I felt that perhaps I should leave ATC alone to more capable people and spend my time better than figuring out how to ATC at LOWI, which I actually considered. And time slots had been planned already. But if I had been prepared there would have been more coverage east-through-west. So anyway, my point is that it's all well and good to plan, but we probably should assume some flexibility on a lot of matters.

I suppose my view is that of a balance between choosing an erea and its available airports. I think both can and should be considered.

elgaton wrote in Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:37 pm:
Training sessions for pilots on both aircraft and ATC procedures
The idea is nice, but I don't think there would be time to do so in a single session.


Well, first of all I don't think it negates the two points you mentioned, both of which I fully support. I suppose what I'm thinking of is not making people master any of what I mentioned, but just getting the basics down. I also think that it's something that could work for the next festival, because at least I wouldn't expect there to be that many participants in such an event.

To me, it doesn't have to be much more complicated than, say, a 777 "clinic" from 10am to 1pm, where someone willing to share can stay at an airport and in a channel discuss how to fly the "stock" 777, ranging from basics to more in depth answers. I don't necessarily think there'd be too many participants. And come to think of it, not all have to be complete newbies either. It could be that someone is good at flying the c172, but doesn't want to deal with the 707, or can't figure out how the 747-400 differs in its current implementation compared to the 777..... Know what I mean?...

Either way, it's just throwing something out there and I think it's just a matter of seeing if anyone's willing to share.
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Re: The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16 (+ideas for Fall

Postby simbambim » Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:46 am

Lydiot wrote in Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:03 pm:
elgaton wrote in Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:37 pm:simbambim replied the Fall edition has always taken place in Europe.

As far as I remember there never was a reason for that other than that it won in the polls. Nobody as far as I recall suggested that it had to be in Europe at least once per year (or every fall). We've only done it twice so far, so it's barely even a pattern. I actually think Europe has a great deal to offer, but I don't think it's necessary to have it there.


I didn't make this up. It's there in the first post of the threads on both forums:

elgaton wrote in Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:08 am:The Festival of FlightGear is a biannual "fly-in" event taking place in Spring and Fall:
  • the Spring edition is held in March in a region outside Europe;
  • the Fall edition is held in Europe and coincides with the FSWeekend "real world event" at Lelystad.


IAHM-COL wrote:For those uninformed, the Festival is a biannual event. It takes places on Spring and Fall. The fall Festival coincides with FSWeekend, and the Spring festival is distanced by about 6 months away.

The Spring Festival is held anywhere in the World (hopefully, except Europe), whereas the Fall festival is held in Europe.

http://www.thejabberwocky.net/viewtopic ... =156#p2012


Lydiot wrote in Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:03 pm:I suppose my view is that of a balance between choosing an erea and its available airports.

I guess the choice is already made by the person making a particular proposition. Then the voters will make their choice based on their own criteria of what is important in the same way.
So far people have chosen only areas with mountains. Personally I prefer waters (lakes, rivers, bays, fjords, coastlines with islands etc.) over mountains as interesting scenery, but since FG doesn't render those well, I can see why people choose mountains. Perhaps the next generation scenery will improve shorelines?

Lydiot wrote in Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:03 pm:To me, it doesn't have to be much more complicated than, say, a 777 "clinic" from 10am to 1pm, where someone willing to share can stay at an airport and in a channel discuss how to fly the "stock" 777, ranging from basics to more in depth answers. I don't necessarily think there'd be too many participants. And come to think of it, not all have to be complete newbies either. It could be that someone is good at flying the c172, but doesn't want to deal with the 707, or can't figure out how the 747-400 differs in its current implementation compared to the 777..... Know what I mean?...

It has always amazed me how people learn to fly a jet aircraft on their own, then claim that ATC communication is difficult... :roll:
If you listen to liveATC for a week, you'll know everything you need to say (as a pilot). Not so easy to learn to fly a jet with all the outdated (or non existing at all) documentation and broken tutorials.
If there was something like this, I'd definitely attend.
Fly on VATSIM and die.
simbambim
 
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Re: The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16 (+ideas for Fall

Postby Lydiot » Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:04 am

simbambim wrote in Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:46 am:I didn't make this up. It's there in the first post of the threads on both forums:

elgaton wrote in Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:08 am:The Festival of FlightGear is a biannual "fly-in" event taking place in Spring and Fall:
  • the Spring edition is held in March in a region outside Europe;
  • the Fall edition is held in Europe and coincides with the FSWeekend "real world event" at Lelystad.


You didn't "make it up", but someone did. When WE started all this, I don't think there was ANY mention of that it MUST be in Europe.

Please show where WE as a community decided this?
Lydiot
 
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Re: The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16 (+ideas for Fall

Postby simbambim » Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:44 am

Maybe we didn't decide it, but not everything is decided explicitly. Sometimes it's just that traditions develop. And so far (since November 9 when this thread was posted) no one has objected to this.
In fact there is a good reason for it to be in Europe, as elgaton already mentioned, because the real-life FS Weekend happens in Lelystad and last year we also had a parallel event in the Netherlands. There were many pilots flying between the Netherlands and Spain and some visiting Lelystad as well. Something I really missed this year.
Fly on VATSIM and die.
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