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The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16

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The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16

Postby elgaton » Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:08 am

This is the thread to discuss everything related to the Spring 2016 edition of the Festival of FlightGear.

Spring 2016 edition: May 7th and 8th, 2016
Time: All weekend Sat 00:00-Sun 23:59 UTC
Location: Japan

---
The Festival of FlightGear is a biannual "fly-in" event taking place in Spring and Fall:
  • the Spring edition is held in March in a region outside Europe;
  • the Fall edition is held in Europe and coincides with the FSWeekend "real world event" at Lelystad.

This first post will be the only one containing up-to-date information about the Festival and will be updated to provide you with links to the latest airport charts/ground networks/Route Manager files/helpful resources for the Spring 2016 edition only. The Fall 2016 edition will be planned and discussed in this dedicated thread.
---
ATCs:
  • RJAA (Tokyo Narita) - SHM/PilotDjim
  • RJTT (Tokyo Haneda) - oscar6662 and it0uchpods
  • Tokyo Center (based at RJGG) - elgaton (availability: 18 to 22 UTC)
  • RJBB (Osaka Kansai Intl.) - IAHM-COL
  • RJFF (Fukuoka) - KIWI34 (cancelled)
  • RJNA (Nagoya) - ACI/aiannuzzi99
  • RJTY (Yokota AB) - J Maverick 16
  • RJGG (Chubu Centrair Intl.) - ACI/aiannuzzi99, ATCJay

AIP charts:
eAIP Japan (requires a free registration)

OpenRadar/Route Manager/Ground network repository:
As usual, I have created a GitHub repository for storing OpenRadar routes, Route Manager files and ground networks. You can find it here - contributions are welcome.

Scenery development:
  • RJGG (Chubu Intl. Airport): Horacio Contreras (from the South-American Group "ViveFG") prepared a GPL scenery for RJGG a while agon; IAHM-COL and legoboyvdlp, in collaboration with him, worked to improve the ground layout and submit the scenery to TerraSync. d-laser will model the tower and terminal with Blender. The Project3000 toolkit was also used.
  • Fukuoka is in progress (the WED layout is already present, models are being built).
  • RJAA (Tokyo Narita) - SHM will help with shared models
---
Old editions:
Fall 2015 edition: November 7th and 8th, 2015
Time: All weekend Sat 00:00-Sun 23:59 UTC
Location: Switzerland and Austria
See progress and feedback from this post onwards.

Spring 2015 edition: May 2nd and 3rd, 2015
Time: All weekend Sat 00:00-Sun 23:59 UTC
Location: Argentina/Brazil (SBRJ/SBGL and south)
See progress and feedback from this post onwards.

2014 edition: November 1st and 2nd, 2014
Time: All weekend Sat 00:00-Sun 23:59 UTC
Location: Iberia (Spain/Portugal)
See the dedicated thread
Last edited by elgaton on Sun May 08, 2016 11:53 am, edited 19 times in total.
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Re: The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16 (+ideas for Fall

Postby elgaton » Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:22 am

First, some feedback from the previous event:
  • Keeping a single thread for both 2015 events was confusing - that happened because, at the time the 2015 thread was started, we didn't know whether the Festival would take place just once or twice a year in the future. This year, I'll open two separate threads for clarity.
  • The Route Manager files were prepared only at the last minute due to personal issues on my part - I hope to do that better this coming year.

Now we need to agree on the 2016 locations - post your suggestions below. (Some discussions are also held on Jabberwocky's forum, I'll take care of crossposting proposals there). Keep in mind the locations should be usable with TerraSync scenery.

Some proposals (and feedbacks) so far:
  • Japan and South Korea (feedback: Japan is quite good and long, with a high large airport density and great landscape);
  • Indonesia (feedback: good, but not as dense as Japan);
  • EGOD-EGNS (feedback: can be opened to the whole UK);
  • New Zealand;
  • East Coast of America;
  • Caribbean (feedback: some areas are currently flooded in the TerraSync scenery, so they are unusable for now);
Last edited by elgaton on Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16 (+ideas for Fall

Postby legoboyvdlp » Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:32 pm

Carribean: Feedback: This should be fixable, if someone cares to get busy with TerraGear, and the custom scenery is actively promoted.
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Re: The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16 (+ideas for Fall

Postby MIG29pilot » Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:38 pm

EGOD-EGNS: Feedback: Just let the FGUK chaps know, no point flooding them with five seconds notice.
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Re: The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16 (+ideas for Fall

Postby Lydiot » Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:44 pm

elgaton wrote in Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:22 am:First, some feedback from the previous event:
  • Keeping a single thread for both 2015 events was confusing - that happened because, at the time the 2015 thread was started, we didn't know whether the Festival would take place just once or twice a year in the future. This year, I'll open two separate threads for clarity.
  • The Route Manager files were prepared only at the last minute due to personal issues on my part - I hope to do that better this coming year.


Don't beat yourself up over the route manager files. I think it should ultimately be the responsibility of the individual ATCs and pilots to make sure they have what they need. Once someone has dug up or created a resource it should be shared with others of course, but I don't think we can or should rely on only one or two people to provide it for all.

elgaton wrote in Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:22 am:Now we need to agree on the 2016 locations - post your suggestions below. (As the main poll will be held on Jabberwocky's forum, I'll take care of crossposting them there).


Why would this be done on Jabberwocky's forum? I don't even know where that is.... Why not here? And who decided this? This is a FG event after all.

elgaton wrote in Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:22 am:Keep in mind the locations should be usable with TerraSync scenery.

Some proposals (and feedbacks) so far:
  • Japan and South Korea (feedback: Japan is quite good and long, with a high large airport density and great landscape);
  • Indonesia (feedback: good, but not as dense as Japan);
  • EGOD-EGNS (feedback: can be opened to the whole UK);
  • New Zealand;
  • East Coast of America;
  • Caribbean (feedback: some areas are currently flooded in the TerraSync scenery, so they are unusable for now);


I would recommend the US west coast instead of east coast. I understand the hesitation to include KSFO, so perhaps that can be excluded. But between KPHX, KLAS, KLAX, KBFL and KLSV (?) there are quite a few major airports with scenery. Actual topography is also good with both mountains, the ocean and the Grand Canyon. Perhaps some people who like acrobatic planes or fighters would want a Grand Canyon race or something!? On the US east coast I admit that KJFK and NY is nice, but there's not that much else around there, is there? I'm obviously open to learn the benefits of it though (compared to the west).

Intuitively, right now, between my suggestion and the ones you mentioned I'm inclined to like the UK, the Carribean and the US west coast.
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Re: The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16 (+ideas for Fall

Postby legoboyvdlp » Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:54 pm

Lydiot:

IAHM-COL wrote:
Why would this be done on Jabberwocky's forum? I don't even know where that is.... Why not here? And who decided this? This is a FG event after all.


@Lydiot

elgaton and I briefly discussed the pros and cons of this. Ultimately holding the poll in thejabberwocky.net forum allows everyone to cast a single vote.
Hosting it only in Curtis' Forum excludes the people unable to access that limited forum to cast a vote. IAHM-COL is still the main co-organizer of the event and he, and others deserve a right to the opinion. --Regardless of what King Curt thinks--

Hosting a simultaneous poll in both forums enables people with double accounts to vote double -- which is unfair.

Hosting it in thejabberwocky.net allows anyone willing to cast a vote and participate to do so in equality of conditions, making it a real fair voting poll. Which is the objective, and thus the reason why the poll to decide the festival locations will be held in thejabberwocky.net forum. People interested to cast a vote only need to register.
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Re: The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16 (+ideas for Fall

Postby legoboyvdlp » Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:57 pm

Lydiot wrote in Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:44 pm:I would recommend the US west coast instead of east coast. I understand the hesitation to include KSFO, so perhaps that can be excluded. But between KPHX, KLAS, KLAX, KBFL and KLSV (?) there are quite a few major airports with scenery. Actual topography is also good with both mountains, the ocean and the Grand Canyon. Perhaps some people who like acrobatic planes or fighters would want a Grand Canyon race or something!? On the US east coast I admit that KJFK and NY is nice, but there's not that much else around there, is there? I'm obviously open to learn the benefits of it though (compared to the west).

Intuitively, right now, between my suggestion and the ones you mentioned I'm inclined to like the UK, the Carribean and the US west coast.


Lydiot:
Part of the fun is creating scenery.
All those airports are already well developed.
For example, this year, Geneve was modelled completely, and is now beautiful.
On the east coast, Newark and La Guardia, at the very least, and so many others, lack models.
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Re: The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16 (+ideas for Fall

Postby Lydiot » Mon Nov 09, 2015 6:06 pm

legoboyvdlp wrote in Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:57 pm:
Lydiot wrote in Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:44 pm:I would recommend the US west coast instead of east coast. I understand the hesitation to include KSFO, so perhaps that can be excluded. But between KPHX, KLAS, KLAX, KBFL and KLSV (?) there are quite a few major airports with scenery. Actual topography is also good with both mountains, the ocean and the Grand Canyon. Perhaps some people who like acrobatic planes or fighters would want a Grand Canyon race or something!? On the US east coast I admit that KJFK and NY is nice, but there's not that much else around there, is there? I'm obviously open to learn the benefits of it though (compared to the west).

Intuitively, right now, between my suggestion and the ones you mentioned I'm inclined to like the UK, the Carribean and the US west coast.


Lydiot:
Part of the fun is creating scenery.
All those airports are already well developed.
For example, this year, Geneve was modelled completely, and is now beautiful.
On the east coast, Newark and La Guardia, at the very least, and so many others, lack models.


That's one airport. Can we guarantee that more will be modeled in time for a festival?
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Re: The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16 (+ideas for Fall

Postby Lydiot » Mon Nov 09, 2015 6:14 pm

legoboyvdlp wrote in Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:54 pm:@Lydiot

elgaton and I briefly discussed the pros and cons of this. Ultimately holding the poll in thejabberwocky.net forum allows everyone to cast a single vote.
Hosting it only in Curtis' Forum excludes the people unable to access that limited forum to cast a vote. IAHM-COL is still the main co-organizer of the event and he, and others deserve a right to the opinion. --Regardless of what King Curt thinks--

Hosting a simultaneous poll in both forums enables people with double accounts to vote double -- which is unfair.

Hosting it in thejabberwocky.net allows anyone willing to cast a vote and participate to do so in equality of conditions, making it a real fair voting poll. Which is the objective, and thus the reason why the poll to decide the festival locations will be held in thejabberwocky.net forum. People interested to cast a vote only need to register.


The first festival started with several people pitching in, including myself. Heck, I started to consolidate the first festival's data into one thread, with links to resources, dates etc. Proclaiming oneself to be a main co-organizer is more than a bit.... presumptuous. No offense, but it really is. If I spend more time on it than I did this year, do I get to bring it back here for a vote because I'm then a main organizer?

This is something that should have been discussed between more than just a few people. Do you want a community or not? Deciding this outside of the larger community only serves to split it up. I highly disagree with the way you went about this. All you had to do was ask others about their opinions on the matter, and apparently you couldn't even do that. Very weak.

What else are you deciding that we'll just be informed about after the fact?
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Re: The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16 (+ideas for Fall

Postby legoboyvdlp » Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:24 pm

So, how do you expect Israel, the person that actively WORKS on this (I did not see you doing anyhing at this last festival...) to be able to work on the next one?
No offence, but he IS the main co-organizer... because he deserves to be by his hard work.
I had nothing to do with this.
No. You are invited to participate there, or you can participate here. But the voting will be on the other forum, for clear reasons.
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Re: The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16 (+ideas for Fall

Postby legoboyvdlp » Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:26 pm

Israel's response...
IAHM-COL wrote:
I highly disagree with the way you went about this.


@Lydiot

I am afraid you are missing the pragmatical situation. Where the poll is held is not a major concern for me. The ability to vote in a fair equality for all invoved is.
In Curtis' Forum (which you like to think as "the" forum) not everyone can cast their vote (fairly, anonymously and on equality of conditions). That makes polling for this on Curtis' Forum rather invalid.
Regardless of who organizes or not the Festival, everyone should be having identical options to vote.--I had never said my vote counts twice because of my previous historical involvement with the festival-- and that's my rebutal to your feeling too strong about me saying that such involvement in previous Festivals has been "main" or "important", and your finding of me saying that to be boisterous.

Again, the pragmatical situation is awkward and it needs a solution. TheJabberwocky.net forum provides one of such solution. It is open. And anyone in the community can vote on equality of conditions.

In terms of FG forums, you will find Curtis Forum (which is a main forum [in your mind] because you decide so, but nothing else compels it to be) -- and you will find a few handful of other forums, in English (ie FGUK), in Spanish, in French, in German, even in Russian. Recently, TheJabberwocky.net forum is another FlightGear Forum cattering an special need to become independent of Curtis Olson,




IAHM-COL wrote:
What else are you deciding that we'll just be informed about after the fact?


Well, to begin with, I will be deciding myself and informing after the fact, all other obvious stuff pertinent to me

1) What will be my involvement in Spring and Fall 2016?
2) Am I ATCing or Flying?
3) If so, where I would serve? and what times?
4) Am I involving myself in creating an scenery package for the festival?
5) Would I organize a mini-game or several?

Maybe I could put some etc here.

Like to give you an historical perspective. In the Fall 2015 festival I decided to serve Geneve, and told you (all) after the fact. I decided my ATCing schedule and told you (all) after the fact. I decided to create an scenery Package for Geneve. Did so. And told you (all) after the fact.
It's just the bones of the matter.




NOTE: I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR CONTROVERSIAL STUFF FOUND HERE... SIMPLY GIVING LYDIOT ISRAELS RESPONSE.
Last edited by stuart on Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Remove inappropriate personal attacks
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Re: The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16 (+ideas for Fall

Postby Lydiot » Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:39 pm

legoboyvdlp wrote in Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:24 pm:So, how do you expect Israel, the person that actively WORKS on this (I did not see you doing anyhing at this last festival...) to be able to work on the next one?


I don't know. What's the exact problem? Can't he just rejoin this forum and stick to organizing this festival?

And are you saying that if I do a lot of work for the next festival I get to decide without your input? Of course you don't, because you set your mind on this already and you just don't appear to care about the opinions of others. If you did I definitely missed it.

legoboyvdlp wrote in Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:24 pm:No offence, but he IS the main co-organizer... because he deserves to be by his hard work.


Whatever dude.

legoboyvdlp wrote in Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:24 pm:You are invited to participate there, or you can participate here. But the voting will be on the other forum, for clear reasons.


Whatever. You guys clearly just decided to make this your thing. I think it's sad, and I think it retroactively implies that some previous allegations were essentially correct. You're splitting the community with this line of reasoning and action. I think it's disappointing and unbecoming.
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Re: The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16 (+ideas for Fall

Postby legoboyvdlp » Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:44 pm

Lydiot wrote in Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:39 pm:
legoboyvdlp wrote in Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:24 pm:So, how do you expect Israel, the person that actively WORKS on this (I did not see you doing anyhing at this last festival...) to be able to work on the next one?


I don't know. What's the exact problem? Can't he just rejoin this forum and stick to organizing this festival?

And are you saying that if I do a lot of work for the next festival I get to decide without your input? Of course you don't, because you set your mind on this already and you just don't appear to care about the opinions of others. If you did I definitely missed it.

As I said, I had nothing to do with this.
He can't -- he was banned by whichever moderator did so for life (I guess?).
Not without OUR input.
With yours, with mine, with the worlds.

legoboyvdlp wrote in Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:24 pm:No offence, but he IS the main co-organizer... because he deserves to be by his hard work.


Whatever dude.

That's my point.
He worked hard.
He gets an input.
But so do you.
Only you don't seem to want to give any input. Go on. Give it a try. What change do you want?

legoboyvdlp wrote in Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:24 pm:You are invited to participate there, or you can participate here. But the voting will be on the other forum, for clear reasons.


Whatever. You guys clearly just decided to make this your thing. I think it's sad, and I think it retroactively implies that some previous allegations were essentially correct. You're splitting the community with this line of reasoning and action. I think it's disappointing and unbecoming.

Ah, so you though Israel would just go into a corner and cry, and say, "boohoo, I don't wanna play any more"?
It is simple.
He can't access here.
So, with his friends, he creates a forum as a place to discuss the best flightnsimulator ever.
He was forced to. Not because he wanted to.
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Re: The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16 (+ideas for Fall

Postby Lydiot » Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:46 pm

legoboyvdlp wrote in Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:26 pm:Israel's response...
IAHM-COL wrote:I highly disagree with the way you went about this.


@Lydiot

I am afraid you are missing the pragmatical situation. Where the poll is held is not a major concern for me. The ability to vote in a fair equality for all invoved is.
In Curtis' Forum (which you like to think as "the" forum) not everyone can cast their vote (fairly, anonymously and on equality of conditions). That makes polling for this on Curtis' Forum rather invalid.


Really? It's not a major concern of yours but your concern is that everyone can cast their votes..... Would you have had the same opinion about where to host the poll if you were still a member here? That's the problem, isn't it?

legoboyvdlp wrote in Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:24 pm:In terms of FG forums, you will find Curtis Forum (which is a main forum [in your mind] because you decide so, but nothing else compels it to be) -- and you will find a few handful of other forums, in English (ie FGUK), in Spanish, in French, in German, even in Russian. Recently, TheJabberwocky.net forum is another FlightGear Forum cattering an special need to become independent of Curtis Olson.


Which forum has the most users? How is it more pragmatical to get a bunch of users to register to a new forum rather than hold the vote on the forum with the most users? You're telling me "forum.flightgear.org" isn't really an "official" or "main" forum? On what basis? Because if you don't disagree then I don't see why you bring it up in the first place.

IAHM-COL wrote:
What else are you deciding that we'll just be informed about after the fact?


Well, to begin with, I will be deciding myself and informing after the fact, all other obvious stuff pertinent to me

1) What will be my involvement in Spring and Fall 2016?
2) Am I ATCing or Flying?
3) If so, where I would serve? and what times?
4) Am I involving myself in creating an scenery package for the festival?
5) Would I organize a mini-game or several?

Maybe I could put some etc here.

Like to give you an historical perspective. In the Fall 2015 festival I decided to serve Geneve, and told you (all) after the fact. I decided my ATCing schedule and told you (all) after the fact. I decided to create an scenery Package for Geneve. Did so. And told you (all) after the fact.
It's just the bones of the matter.


Yeah, that's not really what I was talking about. I thought it was obvious.
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Re: The Festival of FlightGear, Spring '16 (+ideas for Fall

Postby Lydiot » Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:48 pm

legoboyvdlp wrote in Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:44 pm:That's my point.
He worked hard.
He gets an input.
But so do you.
Only you don't seem to want to give any input. Go on. Give it a try. What change do you want?


Really? Horse-crap. Let's try it:

We'll hold the poll in this forum.

Will it now change? Probably not. Why? Because you made your decision and that makes your question entirely disingenuous.
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