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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby LH-1701 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:09 pm

Here's my description how to fix the problem reguarding metar (linux, but windows is similar)

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=35320&start=30#p342438

reguards

tobias
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby AAL545 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:07 pm

I do not see the difference between those tow neglects!
Or do you mean a friendly neglect does not disturb that much?


The reason I brought that up is I remember someone asking to be neglected, maybe that person didn't want to disturb others
but wanted to see other traffic (friendly neglect).


There are often pilots which doesnt communicate or intentionally disturb others, for example by cruising into approach area.

That's where I refer to hostile neglect, lack of other words!

My opinion is: when someone doesnt want to follow ATC advise, why is this pilot choosing an airport or region that is under ATC control?
There are so many airports and regions out which are uncontrolled and where pilots can test, train or fly without disturbing anyone.
And it's always possible to fly offline...


Very good point LH1701, obviously there are pilots who choose to disturb!




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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby jomo » Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:56 pm

addon to weather problem:
--------------------------------------------------------------
Postby V12 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:57 am
There is another nasty solution - feed the metar string into the property tree from external application via telnet.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks - but I guess most of our (beginners) may not be able to do that - and also you might not be able to do that hourly

--> So I will try the following using: https://de.allmetsat.com/metar-taf/deut ... ?icao=EDDF
from that I will pick and provide on request:
METAR: EDDF 091620Z 21019KT 9999 VCSH FEW030TCU SCT041 09/03 Q1011 NOSIG
I hope that helps for the interim (even if it is not always up to date - I will try)
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby AAL545 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:31 pm

Here's my description how to fix the problem reguarding metar (linux, but windows is similar)


Is there a way to find the string instead of scrolling through with the mouse? this will take forever.

linux Mint 18.3



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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby LH-1701 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:43 pm

Hi American 4955 ;)

You can do a search in ghex:

Just press CTRL+F oder use Menu "Edit" / Find

But you have to enter the string manually, but http://t will be enough

reguards

tobias
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby AAL545 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:07 pm

You can do a search in ghex:

Just press CTRL+F oder use Menu "Edit" / Find

But you have to enter the string manually, but http://t will be enough



For some reason it didn't work for me,
anyway I found it and replaced the url string, I did a test and it works.
Thank you so much.


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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby Ger272 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:11 pm

I totally understand people who are disapointed due to a neglect by EDDFjom. I'm watching it for a long time now and there are actually three types of neglection: 1) reasoned exclusions, 2) unsubstantiated exclusions and 3) something in between.

The Type 1) are sure people who have the intention to disturb the ATC. These guys act deliberatly against the atc advise or disturb via mumble. No doubt there are these people and they have to be neglected. For example: that Voodoo-Guy.
By the way: I use tto control EDDT and I only had very few (almost none) of these players - many because I don't rise to provocation that much.

Type 2) exclusions are mainly based on misbehavior or mistakes by the ATC. Especially the last days I observed that the ATC did not react at all or reacted after minutes of waiting (even there was no communication with other aircrafts). Sure Pilots want to fly and don't like waiting in standby. Therefore some Pilots think that the ATC is not active anymore or not interessed and start to taxi (or that ever). Even in this cases EDDFjom commonly reacts with exclusion.

The Typ 3) exclusions are often based on simple missunderstandings, bad communication or missing skills (based on ATC or Pilot). Often there is no bad intention and therefore in my eyes no reason for exclusions at all. For example: I was neglected by EDDFjom because I was flying a "wrong" SID. In the end I could prove that he is using wrong SID's and I was flying correctly. But first he had no discernment and neglected me in a very rude way. A friendly attitude and some patience could often solve the problem and reduce the number of exclusions. In the end this would bring more fun to all of us and I guess we want FlightGear to be a plattform to improve and learn from each other.

In case of people who just want to fly around and see what other pilots are doing I think it would be okay to keep them below 5000ft and keep them out of the glideslopes. If they offend this rule: neglect. But first let's give them at least a chance.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby V12 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:24 am

There are 3 basic rules :
1) ATC is allways right except TCAS TA/RA
2) If ATC is not right, use rule 1)
3) ATC is here for ATCing, no discuss.

I never discuss with ATC. I took off from Innsbruck 08, ATC adviced me turn to ABB 313. In my opinion, this advice was bad, but without discussion I rolled Concorde to 60 degs left and started sharp 2G left turn on afterburner and climb rate 6000 fpm. When I was in mid of that non logic turn, ATC issued new advice - that his 313 meant NDB frequency, not heading... There was not time for any debate, there was other 3 or 4 aircrafts waiting for take off...
Last edited by V12 on Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby Octal450 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:02 pm

+1 V12
The same goes for us in real life. I've had it before where ATC told me something strange I didn't expect, without question I followed it.

It could have prevented a collision...

If you don't want ATC by Jomo, then just neglect him, and he will neglect you as well. But don't ruin it for those if us which to want it please!

Kind Regards,
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby stuart » Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:12 pm

Hi All,

I've split off and removed a whole bunch of posts which were not constructive and degenerated into a slanging match (see forum rules 5, 10)

I have absolutely no patience to try to disentangle who said what when. I have better things to do with my time, as do you all. So if I see this topic degenerate again I will start temporarily banning people.

-Stuart
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby Michat » Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:34 pm

Hi Stuart
I want to express my disagreement of this kind of things are finally derivating into a banning situation, like bad language or similar.
If certainly there is a formal justification for that, I think will not reflect the real situation, will neither benefit the entire community.

I tell you what, because such high number of flies can't not be wrong. (for those who have short understanding, that's means is a poo)
Of course they are wrong with the language. So please guys maintain your composture. Don't loose your right because shooting bad language please.

But what's really going wrong with their experience with FG at this unexisting triangle? Tower is shooting quicksilver since ....

This is the most destructive activity we have had in FG for years. I was trying to moderate and deal with the same problem in mumble. Mr Jommo is shooting quick silver. I had to advise every newbie (mainly teenagers, but older too) on mumble over the risk to get connected at EDDF. As we can everyone understand , they used to assume some communication risks, but not to be shot by fire. Some of them like WTF-11 Joshua has experimented this fire years ago, but he fought too, remember Djim and Oscar in crossfire.

But now all seems to be natural as we take for grant that Mr jommo's behavior is kind of normal thing where old and young guys are passing an initiation experience in FG. I don't buy it.

Is not so easy at it seems I always tried to introduced EDDF like a must not to fly area. I have to deal with the curiosity (kill the cat) of newbies who after been advised of such risk. They were kill by default in such miserable way.

What we get till here?. Just loosing most valuable newbies, loosing people, our future just for an horrible experience that now is identified to the total of our reputation.

Enough is enough.

I had very important talk with Emer years ago on mumble. I will not support people who make crying 11young but smart pilot and pianist, with the ability to speak 3 languages like Oscar just because he sounds baby. In other ways I had to support many pressure from people who have suffer abuses, many pressure in several ways. Not to open a mumble war against Jommo, I did advise of the risk previously, but also high pressure from people who wanted to take legal action against him. Like fathers, or just single mature individuals that are not having for granted that such activity could exist in FG.

After trying to be mostly on the rational side of the natural FG user-pilot- psychology. I get the conclusion, seconding the last part with my experience in FG mumble for 15 Years that they are right we can not make for granted that behavior like normal experience at EDDF .It is an abnormal behavior that we can't not allow.


Dear Mr Emmerich. Please, bee sure you are polite with all the pilots in your area, specially if they are newbies, in those cases you need to be even more polite.

I'm not happy loosing pilots since... and I can't be FG attorney for every problem you have caused. Be advise, not just a single but several persons were thinking seriously in to start legal actions against you. Last reason I had to invent to defend you in such cases is that your probably are little deaf, the only reason I imagine can explain the total breakage of formal communications with you on ATC frequency. As in the other side we have those problems well reflected in this one point triangle post.

Statistics should be enough representative to see how such high number of flies can't be wrong.

I please you ask for calm

FGDEVS.
Please refund KSFO as the default flightground. I did predictions after kill KSFO, that the natural migration of the newbie bird pack steep 2 will be to EDDF and it's gonna be a disaster in all aspects, among them this one of which is the same kind as always in this thread.

We are loosing.
And I'm bored of this Stockholm syndrome.

Also this is a real advise for everybody. Calm and 29.92

Close your eyes and repeat with me "SanFran is the King"
And give me the Rogaaa Willco.

@Stuart If I tell you that this is a Bull is because I have the balls in my hands.

Thank you for taking time in high programming, such as moderating flies spot as well, that's huge patience.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby jomo » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:54 am

On Sunday Morning I was very happy to see that I could save myself a lot of time defining a problem - because the FGFS moderator had already acted as I planned to request (see viewtopic.php?f=10&t=13009#p343547). Thank You Stuart.

But then I read the viewtopic.php?f=10&t=13009#p343560 from Michat and just wondered! I read in that very lengthy writing many accusations from "anonymous flies" - but could not find one single little piece of fact/evidence/source for those! Obviously that is done on purpose - because it is known that all of those could be verified with our films - if there would be given a date (and if possible a time and the fly-ID) for those wrong doings. To the contrary: ALL that accusations are based on some anonymous "flies" that told him some "unbelievable stories"! (BTW: It could even be that those happenings were with other ATCs at EDDF! There are many who try there skill there!)
BTW: Just in case somebody wants to tell stories now: All films starting from 4.July.2016 till today are still available and could all be re-investigated and/or sent to whoever! That are as of today:
-- 230 online on http://www.emmerich-j.de/EDDF/Films/films.html
-- 350 on local drives, starting 4. Juli 2016
= totally 580 films * ~250 MB = 145.000 GB (more to be found on external BackUps)

After 17 years of successful operating this "EDDF-ATC" 4 times a week and getting many positive response I am tented to go to court because of this attempted character assassination!

But actually it is even becoming much worse: It now gets into "cyber crimes" - and those were not done by little "flies"!
When I started the usual event on Sunnday the whole setting was purposely destroyed:
* Over the http://flightgear-atc.alwaysdata.net/ -page were faked-IDs assigned for that ANTI-GROUP: e.g. they added an "@ATCjom" to the "ATCjom" and a "@user" to the normal "user". Thus there were 2 of those UIDs - and both thought they were the "real" or were meant when called!
* In addition they put users on different servers (e.g. MP1 and MP3) and stopped MP3 intermittently. So not only were all Users confused if they are meant (with the "@,,) - they also could not sent/receive advises/questions from time to time.
* From the ANTI-Group then was again and again sent the msg: "ATC cannot work with you" (and similar/reverse) from another MPserver. And often that was also sent when that problem for that unique guy was solved already!

That all together was a wonderful chaos and constantly enlarged by trying to keep the MP-messanger busy - so nobody could really trust any message, and ATC was constantly overloaded by trying to satisfy everybody, etc. That is why for that event the beginning in the film (http://www.emmerich-j.de/EDDF/Films/201 ... 052-83.mp4) is missing: Simply there was no time to set it up!

I have one hope: As usual those ...... will not stick to this behavior very long - and then we can continue as normal. Pls let us continue as we do since a long time!

Stuart: I agree that this whole lengthy staff is deleted again - but pls. let it here a week or so - so that all people that had big problems, delays etc on Sunday, do have an explanation for this destroyed Kalevala-event
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby Octal450 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:08 pm

Thx Stuart.

@Michat,
Not sure what you mean with "Some of them like WTF-11 Joshua has experimented this fire years ago, but he fought too"

Djim and Oscar we're rightfully neglected. They went out of their way to disturb the service many times. (See movies)

Kind Regards,
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby Lydiot » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:14 pm

stuart wrote in Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:12 pm:Hi All,

I've split off and removed a whole bunch of posts which were not constructive and degenerated into a slanging match (see forum rules 5, 10)

I have absolutely no patience to try to disentangle who said what when. I have better things to do with my time, as do you all. So if I see this topic degenerate again I will start temporarily banning people.

-Stuart


Time for another cleanup Stuart. Let's be consistent, right?
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby LH-1701 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:45 pm

Hi,

may some clarifications reguarding sunday:

The @ in front of a name in chat message is meant similar to "hey xxx" so for example "@LH-1701" means "hey LH-1701" .
I cant remember any users with an "@" in their name in the MP list, but it is possible that my list was incomplete (see below).
So this part was -in my eyes- normal chat behaviour.

But there was another thing: Me and also other people didnt see any text messages from jomo while he saw our messages (and wrote back).
After landing at EDDF (directed by jomo via mumble) i switched the MP server (as far as i remember from mpserver01 to 03) and after the switch i was able to read bis messages again as he could read mine.
But i realized that i was also not able to communicate to some other pilots via chat at this time. For example DLH150 was in range at the same time, and tried to contact me multiple times but he didnt get my responses. With other pilots communication worked normal.
i started to analyze the problem and as far as i could analyze it it was only possible to communicate with people which were connected to the same server and maybe only mpserver01 und 03 were affected.
So maybe this was some action against Jomo (for example by isolating the server he was connected to) or there was a technical problem with the communication between the MP Servers.

But this was only the technical part.

There were multiple pilots in the air which tried to disturb the session and there was also a statement on lennys website to block jomos session. This is in my eyes just rude and unneccessary.

Reguards

Tobias
Reguards

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