Board index FlightGear Multiplayer events

EDDF-Triangle

Virtual fly-ins, fun flies, competitions, and other group events. Find out details of upcoming events, register for competitions, or organize your own tour of a favorite location.

Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby wkitty42 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:49 pm

ok... maybe we did miss the point... we thought, based on your description, that you were trying to find the file locally... that it is/was automatically filled in in a webform doesn't/didn't even come into play... servers don't have that level of access into your machine... that would be a monstrous security nightmare...

so now i've gone and done as you describe and i think some parts are still missing... i had to actually fill in the waypoints in the route box... nothing is filled in there automatically AFAIK... maybe you pasted that path into that box at some point in the past and your browser is auto-filling it in again for you?? the only fields that are filled in automatically are the date, departure time, and arrival time... the times are set to the current UTC time... you have to manually fill out everything else...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
User avatar
wkitty42
 
Posts: 6317
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:46 pm
Location: central NC, USA
Callsign: wk42
Version: git next
OS: Kubuntu 14.04.5

Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby AAL545 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:42 pm

I guess I presumed the program was just looking into that file directory, but like you said I must have entered that at some point in the past but never proceeded with posting the flight plan, hence the reason I don't remember.

servers don't have that level of access into your machine... that would be a monstrous security nightmare...


I agree, that would not be good.
So now I understand how this works, instead of fetching the flight plan from your .fgfs/Export folder, you just enter it!
And that's what I did, it works, thank you!!!!!!!!

AAL4955
AAL545
 
Posts: 214
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:14 am

Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby Leon Portier » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:27 pm

Hi, yesterday UTC evening someone with ATC in the name linked EDDF Triangle.
I was trying out multiplayer at Frankfurt Airport and he said I am neglected and I´m cruising too close.
What does that mean?
Leon Portier
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:15 pm
Callsign: D-LEP
OS: Windows 7

Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby cbgonzalez » Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:58 pm

When flying close to a controlled airfield (like EDDF probably was) you are expected to contact the controller in order to receive instructions.

If you don´t (or ignore the instructions) you´ll be ignored by her/him (and possibly blacklisted?).
cbgonzalez
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:30 pm

Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby WoodSTokk » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:19 am

EDDF is a class B airspace. This means, you should stay 30nm away from the airport or 10000 feet above.
Before you enter this airspace, contact the ATC and say your intention.
It is a good practice to contact the ATC also if you only fly over the area, so that the ATC know what you do and can better manage the approach/departure aircrafts for a secure seperation.
Normally, if you want do go into the class B airspace, you must request clearence. Only if the ATC say 'cleared to enter class B airspace' to you, you can enter this space.
In the class B airspace follow the advisories of the ATC.
I know, jomo (the ATC on EDDF) don't want surprises. therefor he looks on the radar out to 100nm and contact you long before you come close.
On the other hand, it's worst for a ATC if he/she has a aircraft in the environment without contact. The aircraft crosses the approach or departure cannel, must delay a takeoff or park a inbounding aircraft in a hold.
So, if a ATC contact you, please answer!
WoodSTokk
 
Posts: 500
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:30 pm
Location: Milky Way/Sol/Earth/Europe
Callsign: OE-WST
IRC name: WoodSTokk
Version: 2018.3.1
OS: Debian Buster/Sid

Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby legoboyvdlp » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:57 am

On the other hand if you are flying over the airport in Eurocontrol airspace (as far as I remember above 24000 feet) you are not under the control of EDDF and should be ignored by him.
User avatar
legoboyvdlp
 
Posts: 7580
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:28 am
Location: Northern Ireland
Callsign: G-LEGO
Version: next
OS: Windows 10 HP

Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby D-ECHO » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:03 pm

@Woodstokk there is no Class B airspace in Germany, only C,D,E and G
User avatar
D-ECHO
 
Posts: 1986
Joined: Sat May 09, 2015 12:31 pm

Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby WoodSTokk » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:54 pm

D-ECHO wrote in Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:03 pm:@Woodstokk there is no Class B airspace in Germany, only C,D,E and G

Thanks, good to know, so EDDF is class C?

However, jomo control not only the tower sector. He controls also approach and departure sector.
If you look the movies, you can see that jomo act in a range if 100nm around the airport.
I don't know the altitute where app/dep sector ends, sorry.
WoodSTokk
 
Posts: 500
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:30 pm
Location: Milky Way/Sol/Earth/Europe
Callsign: OE-WST
IRC name: WoodSTokk
Version: 2018.3.1
OS: Debian Buster/Sid

Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby Leon Portier » Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:53 pm

Thanks!
I did also read on wikipedia, that I can stay below 100 meters height to stay out of the airspace too.
Leon Portier
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:15 pm
Callsign: D-LEP
OS: Windows 7

Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby legoboyvdlp » Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:21 pm

I think there is no need to go full realistic here.

In the first place, jomo has control of any aircraft going into or out of EDDF from about sixty miles.

On the other hand any aircraft can cruise anywhere they want: jomo should not try to control aircraft above FL245 unless they are inbound or outbund EDDF or conflict with other traffic.
User avatar
legoboyvdlp
 
Posts: 7580
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:28 am
Location: Northern Ireland
Callsign: G-LEGO
Version: next
OS: Windows 10 HP

Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby jomo » Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:37 pm

Discussions about restricted areas at EDDF (for all other APs it is similar):

It's nice to see how many of you discuss what is restricted at EDDF and what jomo is doing.
I just wonder why nobody of you guys (big pilots!?) gets the idea looking for Charts! There are thousands of aeronautical maps. Let me just name the easily available https://skyvector.com/?id=EDDF&zoom=3 --> see especially the indicators e.g. FL100/65 at the outer boundaries of EDDF - meaning: restricted between FL100 and 65. So in general you must be above fl100 to cross EDDF. (included in that restricted area are also ETOU and EDFE). jomo does not really care if one of you wants to land there without ATC -- but I do expect that you inform me if you are approaching those 2 and be prepared for advises if other traffic gets endangered. By the way: You see exactingly those same markings around EDDF also in our EDDF-movies at http://www.emmerich-j.de/EDDF/Films/films.html

The outside of that area is usually not a must to be controlled by ATC-EDDF! In real life there are hundreds of other ATC's responsible (area, APR, Dep, Final, taxi, etc etc!) .
BUT even if EDDF-ATC-jomo is legally not authorized --> to my knowledge most pilots would like to know as soon as possible how to approach on what route for what rw plus ATIS, etc. - and how to get lined up into the other traffic.
AND: Nobody is forced to accept EDDF-ATC advises! If you do not want to be controlled - just say so and you get neglected --> then you can do whatever you want - nobody cares!

Is there really a problem with that procedure??
jomo / ATCjomo + EDDFjo1 + EDDFjo2
ATC at EDDF Fr,Sa,Su,We from 20:00 to 24:00 CET/MEZ., see http://www.emmerich-j.de
User avatar
jomo
 
Posts: 950
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:46 pm
Location: Mainz, Germany
Callsign: jomo jomoATC
OS: UBUNTU 18.4

Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby AAL545 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:15 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong Jomo,
the way I see it is a pilot can ask for a friendly neglect (temporary) if he/she wants to cruise around the airport or maybe take off or land without ATC advice,
vs a hostile neglect, in other words a pilot who is not following ATC advice and is interfering with other pilots that are following ATC advice.


AAL4955
AAL545
 
Posts: 214
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:14 am

Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby jomo » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:27 pm

I do not see the difference between those tow neglects!
Or do you mean a friendly neglect does not disturbe that much?
For me: Neglect is Neglect!
(For sure I do not want to switch neglect nondelect delect etc etc all few minutes.)
jomo / ATCjomo + EDDFjo1 + EDDFjo2
ATC at EDDF Fr,Sa,Su,We from 20:00 to 24:00 CET/MEZ., see http://www.emmerich-j.de
User avatar
jomo
 
Posts: 950
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:46 pm
Location: Mainz, Germany
Callsign: jomo jomoATC
OS: UBUNTU 18.4

Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby LH-1701 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:32 am

Hi,

My opinion is: when someone doesnt want to follow ATC advise, why is this pilot choosing an airport or region that is under ATC control?
There are so many airports and regions out which are uncontrolled and where pilots can test, train or fly without disturbing anyone.
And it's always possible to fly offline...

Jomo is sometimes reacting loud, and in my eyes he's in some cases a bit too fast with the neglect button, BUT:
There are often pilots which doesnt communicate or intentionally disturb others, for example by cruising into approach area.
In other networks (VATSIM for example) they can be banned by ATC for such behaviour.
Flightgear doesnt have this option, so a neglect is the only choice in this case.
Keep in mind, that ATC is responsible for separating the planes and it's his/her decision.
In real life you HAVE to follow ATC as pilot advise whenever you enter a controlled airspace.

And: He and other ATCs are spending a lot of time to give us a service that makes flying more realisting and interesting.
So i think its a good idea to honorize this a bit.

Happly flying,

Tobias
#ISupportJomo
LH-1701
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:12 pm
Callsign: LH-1701
Version: 2018.3.2
OS: Linux

Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby jomo » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:13 am

WEATHER-Setting-Problem
Some of you may have noticed that actual weather is not loading any more - due to changes in the external international weather-reporting. This will require a change to the basic FGFS code - that may take some time -- in the meantime you may use a fix provided by:
http://www.thejabberwocky.net/viewforum.php?f=58 "Life weather does not work"!

I, as ATC, will just use the "fair weather" from: FGFS -> menu -> Environment Settings -> Weather -> Weather Conditions -> Fair Weather

That way I cannot provide the NOTAMS (QNH etc) any more - until the FGFS is upgraded.
You may use whatever you want - just be aware that e.g. my altitude indications may differ to yours (when you fly real weather).
jomo / ATCjomo + EDDFjo1 + EDDFjo2
ATC at EDDF Fr,Sa,Su,We from 20:00 to 24:00 CET/MEZ., see http://www.emmerich-j.de
User avatar
jomo
 
Posts: 950
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:46 pm
Location: Mainz, Germany
Callsign: jomo jomoATC
OS: UBUNTU 18.4

PreviousNext

Return to Multiplayer events

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest