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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby AAL545 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:53 am

remember, the MP protocol has fixed sized packets it sends... if a craft tries to send to much, the packets will be truncated... that could easily lead to problems like this...



There is a lot of technical info in the previous post and not sure what I'm supposed to do with it.
I guess my question is what can I do about this?
I have written a small simple python script but that's about it, all I can do is keep my system up to date.
Is there a way to control how many packets an aircraft sends over MP, this is over my head so not sure what I can do!



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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby AAL545 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:13 am

2017.3 Changes
New property /sim/multiplay/transmit-only-generics, when this is set only the position header, all of the sim/multiplay/generic/ and instrumentation/transponder/ are transmitted over MP. This is intended to allow models to use an alternative encoding (such as the Emesary PropertyNotification) to transmit a well known (to the model) list of properties packed into the generic properties.

The maximum size of a string was also increased to 768 bytes (from 128).




Just had a look in my /sim/multiplay/last-xmit -packet-len = '832' (int)
I'm on FG version 2018.1.1 so not sure if this is an issue.
Also could I enable debugging to find the issue?


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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby Richard » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:24 am

wkitty42 wrote in Thu May 31, 2018 2:31 pm:as i understand it, craft should be being switched to using Emesary so the problems of the old format may be avoided...


Probably not right to say all craft should be switched as a blanket statement. It is currently available as an option to the developer.

Using the Emesary Multiplayer Bridge[1][2] is an effective way to transmit more properties using less space[3]; however if the transmit filter property base[4] is also set to say 10000 or higher then only the really important properties will be available to other craft. This will impact

-------------------
[1] http://chateau-logic.com/content/emesar ... flightgear
[2] https://github.com/Zaretto/fg-aircraft/ ... b.nas#L358
[3] https://github.com/Zaretto/fg-aircraft/ ... cation.nas
[4] /sim/multiplay/transmit-filter-property-base
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby wkitty42 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:18 am

AAL545 wrote in Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:53 am:
remember, the MP protocol has fixed sized packets it sends... if a craft tries to send to much, the packets will be truncated... that could easily lead to problems like this...

There is a lot of technical info in the previous post and not sure what I'm supposed to do with it.

if you're just a user, then nothing... it is an attempt to explain what's going on...

AAL545 wrote in Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:53 am:I guess my question is what can I do about this?

if you're a user, nothing... the developers have to do it...

AAL545 wrote in Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:53 am:Is there a way to control how many packets an aircraft sends over MP

the developers handle that when they implement the MP stuff and decide what they're sending over to remote sims...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby AAL545 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:37 am

From what I have heard there is an issue with the latest aircraft from flightgear and github not functioning properly with MP so is there a way to install older aircraft?
I'm looking for early 2017 because that's when everything was still working fine for me.


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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby wkitty42 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:13 pm

i don't know where you heard such from but it cannot be proven by myself... i've not had any problems running craft from flightgear's official repo... the few i have from github are also fine... i've not tried (m)any from that other group, though... if they are falling behind, oh well... and frankly, the older craft are likely to have problems since they are... ummm... older and may not handle the new MP stuff well... it should also be noted that the old MP stuff may be removed at some point... there's no sense in keeping it around if the MP servers have all switched over to the newer stuff... is there?
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby AAL545 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:14 pm

i've not had any problems running craft from flightgear's official repo... the few i have from github are also fine...


The reason I say that is because over the last week I have tried the B777 from the official FG repo, from Github, from "http://mirrors.ibiblio.org/flightgear/ftp/Archive/Version-3.x/Aircraft-3.4/"
from my old HD so about half a year old or so and all don't show the gear and correct livery on the films.
I have tried installing them in the user directory, tried installing in the root FG directory, no difference so I give up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So I might as well fly the must advanced B777 there is which is from github.


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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby wkitty42 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:58 am

i give up, too... you are not understanding the problem or what the solution is... it is NOT installing old craft! it is fixing the one(s) that you have... maybe that's clear enough? i dunno but i'm done with it...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby AAL545 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:53 pm

i give up, too... you are not understanding the problem or what the solution is... it is NOT installing old craft! it is fixing the one(s) that you have... maybe that's clear enough? i dunno but i'm done with it..



I agree I don't understand enough, all I know is the older something worked, I can't roll back my system let alone someone else's, all I can do is try an older model aircraft but like you said the new ones need fixing,
so yes lets close this topic.



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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby wkitty42 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:22 pm

no... it is not just the new ones... it is the old ones, too... especially if they are to work on newer FG with the new MP protocol...

/closed
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby AAL545 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:37 pm

New topic,
Now MP server03 is down, what the heck?


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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby wkitty42 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:01 am

it is hosted on the scenery server and the scenery server is down for maintenance according to the operator...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby AAL545 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:57 am

if you're a user, nothing... the developers have to do it...


Then can someone please tell me why the developers of MP or FG aren't commenting here?
I have seen developers part of a discussion in the forum somewhere.
Also what we need (this could take some work) is a way to check the compatibility between MP/FG/ the model aircraft we are using.
This might sound funny to some (I can already hear you laugh) but if this isn't done then this problem will happen again, it's not if but when!!
For example; some are on FG 2017.1.1 some on FG 2017.2.1, FG 2018.1.1, FG 2018.2.1.



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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby tdammers » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:47 pm

wkitty42 wrote in Thu May 31, 2018 2:31 pm:the MP protocol was modified back in 2017... then a few updates were made to it to fix a couple of problems...

speaking of those problems, it almost sounds like the one where the one craft with multiple noses was being displayed with no nose... this was because they were not defaulting that property to false... since the property was not being sent to the remote, it was defaulting to false over there and they were not seeing the nose at all... once the craft was fixed, the nose reappeared and things have been fine ever since... so where's this going? it is possible that the logic in your craft is backwards for your landing gear and livery selection stuff... i dunno...


The aircraft in question is the DHC-6; defaulting the nose to "false" doesn't fix the underlying problem, the property is still not being sent, the model now just deals with it in a less disruptive way. Instead of "oh dear, there's no nose property, so let's not select any nose at all", it now goes "oh dear, there's no nose property, so let's select the long nose, wild guess".

And because of this, the same approach won't work for landing gear, because if the "gear down" property isn't transmitted, then you can only default to "gear always down" or "gear always up"; neither will be helpful.

wkitty42 wrote in Thu May 31, 2018 2:31 pm:the MP protocol was modified back in 2017... then a few updates were made to it to fix a couple of problems...
remember, the MP protocol has fixed sized packets it sends... if a craft tries to send to much, the packets will be truncated... that could easily lead to problems like this...


Well, the new v2 protocol will actually chop up a property tree update into multiple packets if it doesn't fit into one; and older (v1-only) clients will still receive and process the first of those, just not the subsequent ones. And unfortunately, authors have very limited control (bordering on useless) over the order in which they are packed, so you can't even say "OK, these 16 properties here are essential and must go into the first packet, everything after that is eye candy and may be ignore by v1 clients", and then stuff things like surface positions, cockpit / cabin lights, doors, etc., into those "less important" props, and landing gear and such into the "important ones".
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby wkitty42 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:54 pm

AAL545 wrote in Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:57 am:
if you're a user, nothing... the developers have to do it...


Then can someone please tell me why the developers of MP or FG aren't commenting here?

you'll have to ask them... they live on the mailing list where the real work is done...

AAL545 wrote in Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:57 am:Also what we need (this could take some work) is a way to check the compatibility between MP/FG/ the model aircraft we are using.

that is up to the craft developer... it is one of the reasons why the "/sim/minimum-fg-version" property exists and the corresponding message "Aircraft does not specify a minimum FG version: please add one at /sim/minimum-fg-version" is emitted in the console and fgfs.log...

Aircraft does not specify a minimum FG version: please add one at /sim/minimum-fg-versionThis might sound funny to some (I can already hear you laugh) but if this isn't done then this problem will happen again, it's not if but when!!
For example; some are on FG 2017.1.1 some on FG 2017.2.1, FG 2018.1.1, FG 2018.2.1.[/quote]
all of the 2017+ versions have the new MP protocol implementation... newer ones have the bug fixes... some of them may have had the fixes backported...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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