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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby benih » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:58 am

Hm, this may be related to my problem with the c182s (only fallback model is shown)!
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=38161

cgdae wrote in Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:55 pm:and look on our aircraft path

How is that achieved exactly? is this the aircraft path given with --aircraft-dir, like --aircraft-dir=/home/beni/Dokumente/FGFS/Aircraft/c182s ?


[edit]
Looking at the code (https://sourceforge.net/p/flightgear/fl ... f04d1478b/ ) a question arises:
does the code always just tries to do that for <fgdata> Aircraft? So it fails for other aircraft paths?
Code: Select all
+    /* Need to append <fgdata>/Aircraft, otherwise we won't be able to find
+    c172p. */
+    SGPath  fgdata_aircraft = globals->get_fg_root();
+    fgdata_aircraft.append("Aircraft");
+    dirs.push_back(fgdata_aircraft);
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby cgdae » Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:36 am

benih wrote in Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:58 am:Hm, this may be related to my problem with the c182s (only fallback model is shown)!
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=38161

cgdae wrote in Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:55 pm:and look on our aircraft path

How is that achieved exactly? is this the aircraft path given with --aircraft-dir, like --aircraft-dir=/home/beni/Dokumente/FGFS/Aircraft/c182s ?


The multiplayer code we're discussing uses globals->get_aircraft_paths(). which is a list of directories in which to search for aircraft, from --fg-aircraft=... command-line parameters. I suspect it doesn't have information about any directory specified with --aircraft-dir.

And this code doesn't know anything about --aircraft-dir.

I'm unfamiliar with the --aircraft-dir option actually. It looks like it allows one to specify ones aircraft by its directory rather than the aircraft name to look for within one or more Aircraft/ directories.

I'm not sure about the exact details, and haven't experimented with the actual code, but for --aircraft-dir to cause the multiplayer system to fail to find an aircraft, seems to require a particular set of circumstances:

    * The user specifies their aircraft with --aircraft-dir=....
    * A multiplayer aircraft appears with the same model as the user's aircraft.
    * The multiplayer aircraft doesn't appear elsewhere in the locations specified by --fg-aircraft=....

In this case i think the model won't be found, so the multiplayer aircraft will appear as a glider. But i stress that i haven't tried the actual code, so i could be missing all sorts of things here.

If people on this thread are using Flightgear with --aircraft-dir=..., it might be worth trying without the --aircraft-dir=... setting, and instead use --fg-aircraft=... and --aircraft=....

[edit]
Looking at the code (https://sourceforge.net/p/flightgear/fl ... f04d1478b/ ) a question arises:
does the code always just tries to do that for <fgdata> Aircraft? So it fails for other aircraft paths?
Code: Select all
+    /* Need to append <fgdata>/Aircraft, otherwise we won't be able to find
+    c172p. */
+    SGPath  fgdata_aircraft = globals->get_fg_root();
+    fgdata_aircraft.append("Aircraft");
+    dirs.push_back(fgdata_aircraft);


This code is merely appending <fgdata>/Aircraft to the list of paths that we search when looking for models specified in the multiplayer packet. So there's no special treatment of <fgdata> aircraft.

- Jules
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby benih » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:40 am

I found out a little more, see viewtopic.php?f=4&t=38161&p=375315#p375315
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby WoodSTokk » Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:43 am

@cgdae
thanks to clarify it. So FG search for the set-file only to extract the views for other users over multiplayer.
I made also some tests with the 'Ryan-Navion'. The Navion has 2 set-files ('navionA-set.mxl' and 'navionB-set.mxl').
This is only for different FDMs (different motors) and at the end, both refer to 'Aircraft/Ryan-Navion/Models/navion.xml'.
In my tests i can see the Navion from the other session. So i see no problem there.
I'm out of ideas why this isn't working at Jomo's computer.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby benih » Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:55 am

Jomo, maybe your problem was also related to the detail settings i stumbled upon: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=38161
The video with my plane leads me to this conclusion: The c182s defines a fallback model which was shown in your case (the video does not show the high res version, but should, because the fgaddon-version with that feature should be old enough for that).
When the affected plane does not define a fallback model, i think either the big/yellow one shows or maybe also no plane at all...
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby jomo » Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:27 pm

benih wrote in Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:55 am:Jomo, maybe your problem was also related to the detail settings
The video with my plane leads me to this conclusion: The c182s defines a fallback model which was shown in your case (the video does not show the high res version, but should, because the fgaddon-version with that feature should be old enough for that).
When the affected plane does not define a fallback model, i think either the big/yellow one shows or maybe also no plane at all...

Thx for your trying - but quite clearly: Just with the ATCing I am bussy more then 20h a week - I cannot spend much more time to debug single planes or try unique changes to models or setup or whatever.

But I just tried with the normal FGFS-launcher the 3 (in FGFS) available Cessna's:
-- the "Cessna 182" starts and looks ok
-- the "Cessna 182 (2d panel)" starts and looks ok
-- the "Cessna 182S" gives: " file /usr/share/games/flightgear/Aircraft/c182s/c182s.xml: line 602 [31m [1m<function> should have no more than 1"

Maybe a designer can help - otherwise I am sorry -- I will not spend that much time! Remember that I said I will only support what is in the standardt FGFS library - I had areasons for that!
Anyhow - thx that we could clear that
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby benih » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:18 pm

I talk about the c182s (which i happen to contribute to).
I think that may be caused by some old model in fgadon; we had fixed some jsbsim-errors like that some while ago. They were caused by jsbsim stricter checking.

In this case you may probably just want for the update to trickle into the fgaddon hangar.
The current git version does not show that behaviour. I report that to the c182s project.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby jomo » Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:09 am

The 747-8 mystery
During our EDDF-Triangle sessions we constantly ran into problems that the 747-8.. (i,I,r,R) could not be shown in our films. I tried to find out if I could find out what the problem is. So:

1) I downloaded the newest version 747-8r from http://mirrors.ibiblio.org/flightgear/ftp/Aircraft/
-->that is: 747-8i.zip 2018-Oct-22 13:01:01 22.1M application/zip
As you all hopefully know by now: That is the only source I I will use/discuss. I know that there are many many other libraries around with the most perfect plans designed - but sorry: I cannot load thousands of planes out of different libraries - so the base of our discussions will just be the FGFS formal library!!!

2) With that one in the library I tested to call up the 4 different possibilities (I have seen coming into EDDF):
-- 747-8rThe requested aircraft (747-8r) could not be found in any of the search paths.
-- 747-8R
-- 747-8i
-- 747-8I
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby jomo » Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:41 am

The 747-8 mystery
During our EDDF-Triangle sessions we constantly ran into problems that the 747-8.. (i,I,r,R) could not be shown in our films. Today I tried to find out what the problem is. So:

1) I downloaded the newest version 747-8i from http://mirrors.ibiblio.org/flightgear/ftp/Aircraft/
--> that is: 747-8i.zip 2018-Oct-22 13:01:01 22.1M application/zip

As you all (hopefully) know by now: That is the only source I will use/discuss. I know that there are many many other libraries around with the most perfect models designed - but sorry: I cannot load thousands of models out of different libraries - so the base of our discussions will just be the FGFS formal library!!!

2) After about 4h trying I found that even with the latest download of the 747-8i I could not make it work with our OpenRadar --> Or-Cam viewing. Even if I try all possible call-up-versions.

3) Then I tried the FGFS-launcher --> And "Oh wonder" there it works!!!!
--> Then I found that the Launcher does not start the 747-8i but it calls for the 747-8i/747-8i-set.xml

Well -- SORRY -- I have no idea why that is now defined that way. Till now you always could call-up a model just by its Folder-name. I do not believe that every FGFS user might want to define in future all his models
by either using the launcher or first has to dig into the actual coding to find the plane he looks for! At least none of the service-programs will do that (like e.g. OpenRadar + OR-CAM). And I really do not see any reason for that. If needed (also for the outside world) I guess we all should only use models that are in an own file-structure!
(Or we change the LAUNCHER accordingly - if we want to be able to see during any events our friends in their fantastic models!)
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby benih » Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:25 pm

If needed (also for the outside world) I guess we all should only use models that are in an own file-structure!

A reason for that is, that a single folder could hold several aircrafts; usually variants of a model.
This is made working by switching to the proper *-set.xml like described here:
http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?ti ... _file_name

so in fact: `--aircraft=747-8i` should resolve to the appropriate aircraft 747-8i-set.xml file.

The launcher imho sets some aircraft path, but the --aircraft parameter should search the given library paths for the set file.
Or am i wrong here?
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby jomo » Mon Nov 02, 2020 3:45 pm

benih wrote in Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:25 pm:so in fact: `--aircraft=747-8i` should resolve to the appropriate aircraft 747-8i-set.xml file.

The launcher imho sets some aircraft path, but the --aircraft parameter should search the given library paths for the set file.
Or am i wrong here?

Sorry - but you are wrong:
As I said: The launcher does not do that!
* Try the launcher
* Select Aircraft
* select the "747-8 Intercontinental" (There is nothing for the 8R)
* Click on that Picture for selection and you see the actual Selection:
--> "Local file location: /usr/share/games/flightgear/Aircraft/747-8i/747-8i-set.xml"
* That line defines the plane - and that is defined by Main File + set.file
So you cannot select other models out of the launcher

And if you want to define the model outside the launcher - you first have to find the set-file in order to to define which 747 you want. Thus only specialists know how to start a 747.8x -- and I believe that is pure design-restriction and that is very bad for all other FGFS programs that will try to view other-planes.
(e.g. try to view it with Or-CAm or similar! or even just with FGS (without the launcher!!)
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby wkitty42 » Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:53 am

jomo wrote in Mon Nov 02, 2020 3:45 pm:* select the "747-8 Intercontinental" (There is nothing for the 8R)

but you can select the 8f (freighter)...

jomo wrote in Mon Nov 02, 2020 3:45 pm:So you cannot select other models out of the launcher

when you look at the 747-8 intercontinental, do you see up/down arrows on the right side of the craft name? click them and you can select the 747-8f, a different model than the intercontinental ;)
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby jomo » Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:56 am

wkitty42 wrote in Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:53 am:but you can select the 8f (freighter) out of the launcher

Wonderful -- but the big question remains: How do you do that during an event to see your friend -- or as a poor guy like an ATC ? etc. etc.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby benih » Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:06 am

I think that the aircraft needs to be installed properly (that will drop the *-set.xml into the proper place) and then the FGFS-instance (for example ORCAM, or other normal instances) needs to setup the aircraft search patch accordingly (that is done with the --fg-aircraft= i think. i don't fully understand the implications with --aircraft-dir, however. --show-aircraft will show all available types.)

These must be set accordingly when starting the ORCAM in your case.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby wkitty42 » Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:51 am

jomo wrote in Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:56 am:Wonderful -- but the big question remains: How do you do that during an event to see your friend -- or as a poor guy like an ATC ? etc. etc.

if the craft is designed and installed properly, you don't unless you intend to fly it... finding the craft for MP use is be automatic and just happens... this is exactly why both the launcher and the sim walk the defined aircraft directories looking for and loading all *-set.xml files...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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