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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby hans05 » Wed May 02, 2018 9:26 pm

Try a different call sign and a different name on mumble and then follow what jomo says.
And maybe you can chose a time that is not too busy at EDDF, that also helps :-)

Jomo stayed friendly to me even though I made mistakes. I guess he saw that I was really trying hard and also I promised to leave when it gets to busy for him to handle a beginner like me.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby fg101 » Thu May 03, 2018 9:33 am

hans05 wrote in Wed May 02, 2018 9:26 pm:Try a different call sign and a different name on mumble and then follow what jomo says.
And maybe you can chose a time that is not too busy at EDDF, that also helps :-)

Jomo stayed friendly to me even though I made mistakes. I guess he saw that I was really trying hard and also I promised to leave when it gets to busy for him to handle a beginner like me.


Thankyou @hans05 maybe I will try it :)
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Re: Report on ATCjomo at EDDF

Postby jomo » Thu May 03, 2018 8:53 pm

I am sorry - somehow my "subscribe" to the forum got lost since April 30 - so I did not know about this big issue since then. I must say: From my side I am very disappointed that obviously none of the commentators did try to see what really happened! For what do I put a lot of work in generating the films - if nobody even tries to learn from them -- especially by expanding your limited knowledge about what happens around you while you are piloting! Let me take this happening as an example between FACTS and FAKES by analysing what is said and what was in the film:
http://www.emmerich-j.de/EDDF/Films/201 ... 759-82.mp4 starting at film-time 0:24:42:
fg101 wrote in Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:23 am:I was doing a short trip from EDDM to EDDF on 29th April 2018 at around 18:30 UTC and was in contact with ATCjomo. Now, I was inbound EDDF at around 60 NM out and i kept waiting for further instructions and kept asking him for further instructions and never replied.
18:39:30: fg101 reporting in just with "Hello" - not with any request or whatever
18:41:34: fg101 now reporting in with "inbound EDDF" (on fl120 speed 351 (ATC is busy))
18:42:26: fg101 reported in second time, ([i]now on fl80 at speed 325)[/i]
18:43:19: ATC -> fg101 info: rw07R
18:46:31: ATC -> fh101 "left turn 284" (info: there are 7 active targets - all using typing - some causing problems)
18:52:21: ATC -> fg101 "max speed is 250 below fl100" (he is on 318 on fl055 !!)

fg101 wrote in Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:23 am:Later, he replied saying to turn left heading 70 when i was at heading 260 or something. I then input heading 70 into the autopilot and as it happened a right turn was shorter to heading 70 than ATCjomo's left turn so the autopilot took a right turn. since that happened, he started sending messages to me with "!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" which is completely annoying. :evil: :evil: :evil: :x
18:53:49 [b]fg101 starts turning right to airport - unauthorized !! Trouble starts
it does not look as if he could recover for a proper intercept 07R - so I first wanted to get him left 250 for recover - but then decided to rather let him do a short circle -- and forgot to change left/right !! YES: That was a failure on both sides!
18:54:22: ATC -> fg100 " turn left 070" He turns right!
18:55:17: ATC -> asks why he turns right?
18:55:48: ATC now clarifies: GOARROUND on 3000 hdg 070
18:55:48: fg101 "inserted 070 in the AP" + alt 3000
18:57:03: fg101 "awaiting further instructions" (ATC wonders why - and is busy)
18:59:02: fg101 again "awaiting further instructions" (ATC wonders why - and is busy)
19:02:44: fg101 again asking (does he not see that there are lots of problems with others and I am constantly typing - but there is no problem for him??)
19:04:06: fg101 "ATC do you read?"
19:05:10: fg101 is tired to wait such a long time -- And starts cruising wild/uncontrolled - turning back to EDDF.
19:06:08: ATC is also tired of typing typing typing to someone having no problems - and neglects him
19:06:31: fg101 neglects ATC

===>> So: What do you guys suggest?
    Me getting some secretaries to take over the typing (who pays for that?) ?
    Or maybe customers use mumble ? (for installation/operation see http://www.emmerich-j.de/Mumble/mumble.html)
    Or getting only customers who also consider the ATC-workload with customers in trouble - and not so much with him being in no trouble!

But in any case: Pls consider: The films are there for learning - yes - also for me - but especially for beginners.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby AAL545 » Fri May 04, 2018 1:05 am

===>> So: What do you guys suggest?
Me getting some secretaries to take over the typing (who pays for that?) ?
Or maybe customers use mumble ? (for installation/operation see http://www.emmerich-j.de/Mumble/mumble.html)
Or getting only customers who also consider the ATC-workload with customers in trouble - and not so much with him being in no trouble!


From my experience flying MP (which is less then a year) when it gets busy at an airport typing is not the way to go,
and further more I personally think moving to MP is more then just a game versus what some have suggested and some might treat it as such.
Not saying that's what happened here, my point is when you interact like we do on MP having 5 up to 10 or more players/pilots it takes some work.
I try, I work hard and try to make this as real as possible, but that's me.
Again, I'm not pointing any fingers here rather I try to put myself in Jomo's shoes and fg101 and try to be better and learn.
This sounds like an easy solution but lets all hit the reset button, if its nothing personal I don't see why we can't.
I highly recommend Mumble but it might not be the solution for all because of language barrier.


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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby fg101 » Fri May 04, 2018 7:37 am

AAL545 wrote in Fri May 04, 2018 1:05 am:
===>> So: What do you guys suggest?
Me getting some secretaries to take over the typing (who pays for that?) ?
Or maybe customers use mumble ? (for installation/operation see http://www.emmerich-j.de/Mumble/mumble.html)
Or getting only customers who also consider the ATC-workload with customers in trouble - and not so much with him being in no trouble!


From my experience flying MP (which is less then a year) when it gets busy at an airport typing is not the way to go,
and further more I personally think moving to MP is more then just a game versus what some have suggested and some might treat it as such.
Not saying that's what happened here, my point is when you interact like we do on MP having 5 up to 10 or more players/pilots it takes some work.
I try, I work hard and try to make this as real as possible, but that's me.
Again, I'm not pointing any fingers here rather I try to put myself in Jomo's shoes and fg101 and try to be better and learn.
This sounds like an easy solution but lets all hit the reset button, if its nothing personal I don't see why we can't.
I highly recommend Mumble but it might not be the solution for all because of language barrier.


AAL4955


You're correct AAL4955. I think we all can learn from our mistakes and lets hit the reset button. Mumble is perfectly fine with me as I know complete English and so does jomo. Thank you or you advise.

regards,
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby AAL545 » Sun May 20, 2018 3:24 pm

Go to "http://mpmap03.flightgear.org/" while mpmap02 is down, it's not as good but it works.


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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby fg101 » Sun May 20, 2018 10:13 pm

AAL545 wrote in Sun May 20, 2018 3:24 pm:Go to "http://mpmap03.flightgear.org/" while mpmap02 is down, it's not as good but it works.


AAL4955

Thank you very much...Was unable to do many things without it.

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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby Clive2670 » Mon May 21, 2018 7:15 pm

Anyone know why mpmap02 is down?
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby J Maverick 16 » Mon May 21, 2018 7:20 pm

So far nope AFAIK. We are all wondering the same thing here unfortunately.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby Clive2670 » Mon May 21, 2018 7:33 pm

J Maverick 16 wrote in Mon May 21, 2018 7:20 pm:So far nope AFAIK. We are all wondering the same thing here unfortunately.
Regards, Mav

Cheers Mav
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby wkitty42 » Tue May 22, 2018 3:31 am

Clive2670 wrote in Mon May 21, 2018 7:15 pm:Anyone know why mpmap02 is down?

there's a whole topic dedicated to it as well as pointing to mpmap03 being up with a new interface...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby AAL545 » Mon May 28, 2018 3:15 am

Okay something is really weird, on Sunday May 27th-2018 I landed with a B777-200LR, no landing gear and wrong livery,
Twenty minutes later I departed using the same aircraft and it had a landing gear but again wrong livery.
Now I realize there is an issue lately with no landing gear or gear not in the right position, not retracting, wrong livery,
but why is it changing using the same aircraft? Something else is going on here and it's not the aircraft,
the reason I say that is because I have used aircraft from the Flightgear/ download/ aircraft and I have also tried the B777 from "github.com/FGMEMBERS" and no difference.
I thought maybe there is a problem with where I download the aircraft in what home directory but this plane today was installed using the FG launcher.
I can't tell you what to do Jomo but my recommendation would be is we all download from the same source,
what that means is Jomo would have to delete his data base of downloaded aircraft and start clean and see what happens.
No offence but either nobody cares if they see their plane without a landing gear or no one has a solution!


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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby jomo » Mon May 28, 2018 11:12 am

AAL545 wrote in Mon May 28, 2018 3:15 am:I can't tell you what to do Jomo but my recommendation would be is we all download from the same source,
what that means is Jomo would have to delete his data base of downloaded aircraft and start clean and see what happens.
Pls. help me to understand what you are proposing: I see in movie
http://www.emmerich-j.de/EDDF/Films/201 ... 759-77.mp4 at filmtime 1:11:03 your 777-200LR without gear and BA livery
http://www.emmerich-j.de/EDDF/Films/201 ... 922-64.mp4 at filmtime 9:28:53 your 777-200LR with gear and BA livery
After some discussion you admitted that that were the same models but different Download-time or library.
So it is what we know since quite some time now: After the MP-handling changed - same models with different design-structure display different!

But I do not see your proposed solution: If I would change my Aircraft-directory that would not solve the problem: Then it would only mean that now the other one would look wrong! And that would NOT only affect EDDF - all other events would have the same problem (and not just ATCs but also each pilot that would like to see another model during an event!)

I can only say: The pilot defines which plane he chooses (like customers buying something!)! If the customer does not like an upgrade he has to do a change-request to the designer of that model. (See our discussion in this thread: That is possible!) Or you continue to use the (old) model that operates OK. (Maybe that would act like a "WakeUP" to the designer!)

So again: We need a change in design-attitude for model and/or software design - a Go/noGo just because of a version-upgrade must not happen. Nobody can enforce a single aircraft-library nor force all visitors in EDDF (nor any other event) to use only planes from 1 single library.

Finally: I see only these solution:
- Engineers do there job and see that their new versions are compatible with older versions - or at least they change the model-Id. Then also ATC's can have both models in their library!) Same is true for designers designing the same model in a different library: add a code defining it! e.g. 777-200LR-F (FgFS-version) and 777-200LR-G (Git-version). (That are by the way the only two Libraries I care about!)
- or pilots only use models that are compatible with the event-environment!
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby Catalanoic » Mon May 28, 2018 2:35 pm

Thanks jomo for these ATC logs, really usefull for beginners
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby AAL545 » Mon May 28, 2018 3:02 pm

Jomo I realize there was a small misunderstanding on Sunday when you asked me if I switched planes,
so let me explain!
The aircraft on Saturday May 26th 2018 that I have been flying for over half a year and before this gear issue was from "github.com/FGMEMBERS",
if you remember I sent you a link so you can download this model, I can only assume you did and if you did then why didn't it make a difference.
Anyway so this model on Saturday had no landing gear according to the film, so on Sunday May 27th 2018 I removed the aircraft from "github.com/FGMEMBERS" and installed the same model via the FG installer.
All aircraft on FG were updated on April 20th 2018.
As far as a solution Jomo lets try this, since the B777 from FG has at least a landing gear but showing wrong livery I'll stick with this aircraft, assuming yours is up to date all should be good right.
Until then I'll ignore why on Sunday using the same model aircraft I had no landing gear when landing but had landing gear twenty minutes later at takeoff!!!! Confused



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