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EDDF-Triangle

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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby AJC » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:57 pm

I think i am now understand your view but I'm assuming the last line relating to vatsim was sarcastic and a negative future possibility? And i'll assume you were not calling me a 'bully'?
Kind regards,

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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby muadib25 » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:08 am

Hello folks!

I want to ask since the event is not listed in the Multiplayer Calendar, is it taking place every Sunday? I would really like to participate some day! :)

Cheers,
Muad'Dib
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby AJC » Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:50 pm

muadib25 wrote in Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:08 am:Hello folks!

I want to ask since the event is not listed in the Multiplayer Calendar, is it taking place every Sunday? I would really like to participate some day! :)

Cheers,
Muad'Dib

Hi, Yes the evnt is every Sunday. There aren't always the full compliment of ATC's but there will always be at least one or two at the event :)
Hope maybe to see you there :D
Andy
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby muadib25 » Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:20 pm

Thanks Andy!

I'll try to make it probably next Sunday! :)

All best!
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby jomo » Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:59 pm

Subj: Problems with Parking-Positions at EDDF
We analyzed it and found a problem in the Object-file.
$FG_ROOT/Scenery/EDDF-ELLX-ETAR/Objects/e000n50/e008n50/3089154.stg
    see line 53:
    OBJECT_STATIC airrail.xml 8.56861462 50.05271761 112.0972 107.8
    must read:
    OBJECT_STATIC airrail.ac 8.56861462 50.05271761 112.0972 107.8
This Line Nr. 53 is for the initial EDDF-ELLX-ETAR scenery - it may be different in other versions of the e000n50/e008n50/3089154.stg scenery.

You have 2 possibilities to correct:

or
    You search in your current
    $FG_ROOT/Scenery/EDDF-ELLX-ETAR/Objects/e000n50/e008n50/3089154.stg
    for that line and exchange the ".xml" with an ".ac"
After that I hope you will never again hear an ATCjomo shouting on you because you were popping up on the runway!
rgds joe
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby jomo » Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:04 pm

jomo wrote in Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:59 pm:or
    You search in your current
    $FG_ROOT/Scenery/EDDF-ELLX-ETAR/Objects/e000n50/e008n50/3089154.stg
    for that line and exchange the ".xml" with an ".ac"

The above pointer must of course read:
$FG_ROOT/Scenery/Objects/e000n50/e008n50/3089154.stg
sorry
joe
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby clrCoda » Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:28 pm

Another problem with parking that occurs between versions of flightgear 2.0 and 2.4 is the renaming of the file that holds the parking positions.

If you used to have parking in 2.0 and now you have 2.4 and the parking position is named in the airports location page of the wizard but you are not loading, you can find the old file in several places and you can rename the file to the new proper name and again find the parking places work.


Some places you can find the old parking place files.

2.0 and earlier versions may find a parking.xml file in these places ( and possibly in 2.4 but I had just pointed my new 2.4 to old 2.0 scerery folders using the wizard front page.:

<flightgearROOT>\data\AI\Airports\EDDF\parking.xml
<flightgearROOT>\scenery\Airports\E\D\D\EDDF.parking.xml
<flightgearROOT>\terrasync\Airports\E\D\D\EDDF.parking.xml

The thing to do for 2.4 is to put the file in your:
<flightgearROOT>\scenery\Airports\E\D\D folder and rename the file to
EDDF.groundnet.xml


This solved the problem for me.

Ray
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby jomo » Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:29 am

ATC_ELLX now offers the possibility to shelter your beloved model inside the big brown hanger on ELLX. We hope that comes just to the right time, before the winter starts. If your model was extremely nice to you, you may shelter it now while you eat your hot-dog or whatever! Open/close the hangar by mouse-click onto the door (ctrl-c marks the hotspots). Charges for this service have not yet been defined!

That is the only change in the updated http://www.emmerich-j.de/EDDF/EDDF-ELLX-ETAR.zip available since today!
Thanks to Eric
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby LEEKEYS » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:03 pm

PLEASE SEE: http://flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=13712 for the revised and updated event characteristics.
Last edited by LEEKEYS on Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby jomo » Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:03 pm

The new, 4th runway in EDDF has been initiated today, 2011, Oct.21. by a landing of the Gouverment-Jet with German Chancellor, Mrs. Merkel.

The runway will be used starting with the Winter-Flightplan , Oct.30 2011
I (as ATC) will use/assign this new runway for VFR-Landings, only on Pilots-request!

See the new Layouts in http://www.emmerich-j.de/FGFS/

Let's have even more fun
joe
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby AJC » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:20 am

Hmm wow sounds very exciting, wasen't expecting the new runway till sometime 2012 :D
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby jomo » Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:21 am

Someone did send me a PM with something I believe is of interest to all of you - that like the Triangle:
... the ATC's instructions mustn't be close-minded and fixed. for example, in my last approach today, you vectored my into 17 miles(!) final - when nobody else was landing that time. I could easily fly a 10-8 miles final and land 3-5 mins earlier. the same is about the spd - if there's no traffic ahead, there's no reason to limit the spd, and the pilot will slow down when he'll find it necessary (except of the 250kts under 10,000ft rule, of course).
Actually what i'm trying to say is - the current situation has to be taken in account, in order the service the pilots in the best (= fastest and simplest) possible manner....

My answer/explanation is:

See e.g. the "IAC RWY 07C" and/or "IAC 25C" on http://www.vacc-sag.org/airport/EDDF : The formal ILS-approach is actually from 16 mi out - that means 16 mi out on 4000 ft - intercepting the Glideslope 12 mi out! So even airliners have to do that - even if it costs extra money. (And that is for experienced pilots, whom you can trust that they can handle their aircraft, and that they follow each advise in the standard manner!

My big problem is: I never know who is coming in, and even if: How will he/she fly (today? this hour/min?)? The only thing I know is: I have to be prepared to help if he/she will not act like an experienced pilot!

I usually try to bring you guys and girls in on a "Base" 16 mi out on 3000 ft and then turn you to 30° towards the localizer for interception between 15 and 10 mi out. And the speed: Did you watch yesterday: I bet 50% came in too fast (touchdowns with 200 kn are just about impossible!) - that is one of the biggest problems: Most pilots have no idea what their landing and/or stalling speed is! And many forget, that it is difficult to reduce speed when descending! If you have the chance: Watch (one of) the best 747 pilots I know (Buster): He reduces speed to 140 kn ON BASE already - and his Landings are perfect (as well manually as with AP). And I know pilots that want to intercept more then 20 mi out - very good pilots, flying regularly on TGA-events!.

Often I ask in advance if he/she will use ILS - the answer then is "yes" - then he/she overshoots ILS (may be he/she does not know how to operate ILS, or was joking, or pilot error (an ILS or Autopilot error we can neglect) - and then I have very big problems to get them back onto the beam prior to the Glideslope (starting about 8 mi out on 3000 ft). And I do want to train especially newbies - I do not want to work just with the "best pilots of the world"! (They anyhow prefer VATSIM!)

By the way: Yesterday was a very busy day: I did not get my Lunch in between - there was no pause at all! At one point I counted 15 planes under EDDF control, 8 of them on active approach, 3 taxiing, the rest parking, chatting, trying to show off how good they are (e.g. taxiing with 100 miles not knowing were they are - remember?) - etc.

I suggest to everybody: Especially on such a busy day like yesterday: Try to follow up on MPmap and MAP and MPchat and FGCOM what is going on and who is doing or requesting what and what should be the next advise to whom and how to recover the Pilot-Errors, and who requested what 20 lines up in MPchat, ... etc etc pp.

Of course: If there is really nobody else - just request for a short approach: If you are single I might accept it! But already 2 on approach make that very difficult because you never know if that 2nd one holds his heading, speed, etc. - then I need time to recover (all of us!).

Still I enjoy the ATCing and you guys (except a very, very low percentage!).
Hope that writing helps a little and please keep on criticizing - it helps us all!
joe
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby Icecode GL » Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:39 am

jomo wrote:Still I enjoy the ATCing and you guys (except a very, very low percentage!).
Hope that writing helps a little and please keep on criticizing - it helps us all!


A few time ago I stopped spawning at EDDF. The main reason was time, but there was another reason. I think "I am talking to the wall". When I ask for startup to Ground, Tower answers. When I repeat, Ground says that I should report my intentions. Perhaps it is my problem, but come on, even when I go to KSFO, Tower listens to me!

Yeah, and now you will recommend me to use FGCom blah blah, but sorry, MPChat only. I don't pretend to make anyone angry. I am just "keeping criticizing" to improve the EDDF sessions. (At least I will come more usually if this annoying problem gets solved!)

Cheers.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby AJC » Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:58 am

Hmm I must apologise i have been devoting my time to airlines at the moment )MIA and TSA) but i intent now that i have a laptop to do more atc with you Jomo. I agree with everything Jomo says and i will often try to do the same. With the stall speeds and ILS landing, ALL pilots should really be familiar with the planes systems and stall speed. I can generally bring a small airliner in at 135knts from 4mi out with no problem but i know some aircraft like the 787 stall at some stupid speed around 170knts. An F-14 some of you may know has a slightly unrealistic stall speed of about 80knts. Learn your plaes stall speed and you can land smoothly and very accuratley on the runway!

As for ILS well I to up till recently had problems with ILS and some planes are hard to land with ILS. The best thing to do is find an airport with ILS somewhere offline and practise patterns around it. Refer to either the MPmap or as i now prefer the map under Equipment-->map which will tell you all the same details but has better tracking of you (real time) and shows the beam better in my opinion. Some aircraft just are very hard touse with stall speeds and ILS but i would recommend the E-jet series for first time pilots. Very easy to use and very realistic and I can operate this planes ILS and AP without any problems.

Thanks,

Andy
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby scighera » Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:51 am

Yesterday (Sunday 23 oct 2011) I had a flight from EDDS Stuttgart to EDDF Frankfurth ... and I have to thanks both ATC Operators ! ( I had also to obey instructions from "WIFE" ATC requesting my attention :) )

It has been an exciting experience, even if I do have a lot to learn about rules and ATC "slang". I do have also to check my apt.dat, since the ILS of EDDF rwy 25R and 07L brings me to a "fake rwy" shifted north some 800 m with respect to the existing one !!

So I asked atc jomo to assign rwy 07R instead of 07L (as originally assigned); the approach to 07R, with ILS and AP, was flawless ... but for the last 500m, when I was unable to switch off the AP and make the touchdown in manual (my fault, I discovered later, I was trying to operate a not exhisting hotspot on the AP I added to my dhc6); I was forced to make a run around, and ATC was so patient to follow me again and bring me down to 07L ... which I was forced to do in VFR, for the problem noted above ... so it was exciting more :)

Thanks again for the assistance !

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