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EDDF-Triangle

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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby AAL545 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:42 am

I guess I presumed the program was just looking into that file directory, but like you said I must have entered that at some point in the past but never proceeded with posting the flight plan, hence the reason I don't remember.

servers don't have that level of access into your machine... that would be a monstrous security nightmare...


I agree, that would not be good.
So now I understand how this works, instead of fetching the flight plan from your .fgfs/Export folder, you just enter it!
And that's what I did, it works, thank you!!!!!!!!

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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby Leon Portier » Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:27 pm

Hi, yesterday UTC evening someone with ATC in the name linked EDDF Triangle.
I was trying out multiplayer at Frankfurt Airport and he said I am neglected and I´m cruising too close.
What does that mean?
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby cbgonzalez » Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:58 pm

When flying close to a controlled airfield (like EDDF probably was) you are expected to contact the controller in order to receive instructions.

If you don´t (or ignore the instructions) you´ll be ignored by her/him (and possibly blacklisted?).
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby WoodSTokk » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:19 am

EDDF is a class B airspace. This means, you should stay 30nm away from the airport or 10000 feet above.
Before you enter this airspace, contact the ATC and say your intention.
It is a good practice to contact the ATC also if you only fly over the area, so that the ATC know what you do and can better manage the approach/departure aircrafts for a secure seperation.
Normally, if you want do go into the class B airspace, you must request clearence. Only if the ATC say 'cleared to enter class B airspace' to you, you can enter this space.
In the class B airspace follow the advisories of the ATC.
I know, jomo (the ATC on EDDF) don't want surprises. therefor he looks on the radar out to 100nm and contact you long before you come close.
On the other hand, it's worst for a ATC if he/she has a aircraft in the environment without contact. The aircraft crosses the approach or departure cannel, must delay a takeoff or park a inbounding aircraft in a hold.
So, if a ATC contact you, please answer!
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby legoboyvdlp » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:57 am

On the other hand if you are flying over the airport in Eurocontrol airspace (as far as I remember above 24000 feet) you are not under the control of EDDF and should be ignored by him.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby D-ECHO » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:03 pm

@Woodstokk there is no Class B airspace in Germany, only C,D,E and G
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby WoodSTokk » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:54 pm

D-ECHO wrote in Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:03 pm:@Woodstokk there is no Class B airspace in Germany, only C,D,E and G

Thanks, good to know, so EDDF is class C?

However, jomo control not only the tower sector. He controls also approach and departure sector.
If you look the movies, you can see that jomo act in a range if 100nm around the airport.
I don't know the altitute where app/dep sector ends, sorry.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby Leon Portier » Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:53 pm

Thanks!
I did also read on wikipedia, that I can stay below 100 meters height to stay out of the airspace too.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby legoboyvdlp » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:21 pm

I think there is no need to go full realistic here.

In the first place, jomo has control of any aircraft going into or out of EDDF from about sixty miles.

On the other hand any aircraft can cruise anywhere they want: jomo should not try to control aircraft above FL245 unless they are inbound or outbund EDDF or conflict with other traffic.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby jomo » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:37 pm

Discussions about restricted areas at EDDF (for all other APs it is similar):

It's nice to see how many of you discuss what is restricted at EDDF and what jomo is doing.
I just wonder why nobody of you guys (big pilots!?) gets the idea looking for Charts! There are thousands of aeronautical maps. Let me just name the easily available https://skyvector.com/?id=EDDF&zoom=3 --> see especially the indicators e.g. FL100/65 at the outer boundaries of EDDF - meaning: restricted between FL100 and 65. So in general you must be above fl100 to cross EDDF. (included in that restricted area are also ETOU and EDFE). jomo does not really care if one of you wants to land there without ATC -- but I do expect that you inform me if you are approaching those 2 and be prepared for advises if other traffic gets endangered. By the way: You see exactingly those same markings around EDDF also in our EDDF-movies at http://www.emmerich-j.de/EDDF/Films/films.html

The outside of that area is usually not a must to be controlled by ATC-EDDF! In real life there are hundreds of other ATC's responsible (area, APR, Dep, Final, taxi, etc etc!) .
BUT even if EDDF-ATC-jomo is legally not authorized --> to my knowledge most pilots would like to know as soon as possible how to approach on what route for what rw plus ATIS, etc. - and how to get lined up into the other traffic.
AND: Nobody is forced to accept EDDF-ATC advises! If you do not want to be controlled - just say so and you get neglected --> then you can do whatever you want - nobody cares!

Is there really a problem with that procedure??
jomo / ATCjomo + EDDFjo + EDDFjo1 + EDDFjo2
ATC at EDDF Fr,Sa,Su,We from 20:00 to 24:00 CET/MEZ., see http://www.emmerich-j.de
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby AAL545 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:15 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong Jomo,
the way I see it is a pilot can ask for a friendly neglect (temporary) if he/she wants to cruise around the airport or maybe take off or land without ATC advice,
vs a hostile neglect, in other words a pilot who is not following ATC advice and is interfering with other pilots that are following ATC advice.


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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby jomo » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:27 pm

I do not see the difference between those tow neglects!
Or do you mean a friendly neglect does not disturbe that much?
For me: Neglect is Neglect!
(For sure I do not want to switch neglect nondelect delect etc etc all few minutes.)
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby LH-1701 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:32 am

Hi,

My opinion is: when someone doesnt want to follow ATC advise, why is this pilot choosing an airport or region that is under ATC control?
There are so many airports and regions out which are uncontrolled and where pilots can test, train or fly without disturbing anyone.
And it's always possible to fly offline...

Jomo is sometimes reacting loud, and in my eyes he's in some cases a bit too fast with the neglect button, BUT:
There are often pilots which doesnt communicate or intentionally disturb others, for example by cruising into approach area.
In other networks (VATSIM for example) they can be banned by ATC for such behaviour.
Flightgear doesnt have this option, so a neglect is the only choice in this case.
Keep in mind, that ATC is responsible for separating the planes and it's his/her decision.
In real life you HAVE to follow ATC as pilot advise whenever you enter a controlled airspace.

And: He and other ATCs are spending a lot of time to give us a service that makes flying more realisting and interesting.
So i think its a good idea to honorize this a bit.

Happly flying,

Tobias
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby jomo » Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:13 pm

WEATHER-Setting-Problem
Some of you may have noticed that actual weather is not loading any more - due to changes in the external international weather-reporting. This will require a change to the basic FGFS code - that may take some time -- in the meantime you may use a fix provided by:
http://www.thejabberwocky.net/viewforum.php?f=58 "Life weather does not work"!

I, as ATC, will just use the "fair weather" from: FGFS -> menu -> Environment Settings -> Weather -> Weather Conditions -> Fair Weather

That way I cannot provide the NOTAMS (QNH etc) any more - until the FGFS is upgraded.
You may use whatever you want - just be aware that e.g. my altitude indications may differ to yours (when you fly real weather).
jomo / ATCjomo + EDDFjo + EDDFjo1 + EDDFjo2
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby LH-1701 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:09 pm

Here's my description how to fix the problem reguarding metar (linux, but windows is similar)

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=35320&start=30#p342438

reguards

tobias
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