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berlin airlift

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Re: berlin airlift

Postby butter330 » Tue May 10, 2022 2:11 pm

Yes I have some concerns too because when I saw a c-47 last time on multiplayer I only saw the default yellow/blue thing for a very long time.
I basically had to creep into the other aircraft to be able to see the proper model...
But I'm curious to see what happens tomorrow and I hope it works better as soon the model has loaded once.
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Re: berlin airlift

Postby Ysop » Tue May 10, 2022 4:11 pm

There are different DC-3/C-47s around and as long as you are clear in your communication "You HAVE to use this one:..." it should work.
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Re: berlin airlift

Postby butter330 » Wed May 11, 2022 9:20 pm

So to sum up that test:

-Plane works ok in multiplayer
-JSBSim version is a bit difficult to find
-Frankfurt and Berlin are quite far apart
-increase in simulation-speed doesn't work for everybody (I was assuming I had the worst pc of all participants because that is usually the case)
-I have to learn a lot more navigation stuff
-taildraggers are weird

Like Volador said, I would love to do a similar event but bigger. But I am certainly not the right person to have the main planning responsibility
Still I really hope this topic doesn't die :-)
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Re: berlin airlift

Postby Volador » Wed May 11, 2022 9:36 pm

Butter330, you managed to organise this (quite involved) event just fine, thank you :)
All you need is an idea and suggest it on the Wednesday evening discussion thread (if you'd like to have your event on a Wednesday evening when we usually meet of course), together we can make a plan and they don't all have to be complex :)
Thanks again
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Re: berlin airlift

Postby Ysop » Wed May 11, 2022 10:25 pm

Thanks for initiative and organizing! Great, that you could take part as well. It was good fun.

Experience comes from doing, so we'll continue with Berlin-Frankfurt next week, if everybody is fine with it.
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Re: berlin airlift

Postby Lester-Boffo » Mon May 16, 2022 5:14 am

You know the Berlin airlift had other equally capable aircraft that are also in FG repositories, the PBY would be fun to land at the big lake in Berlin, and makes me sad that I abandoned the Sunderland that I was working on. Military History lists these planes

Boeing B29
PBY Catalina
Consolidated B24
Handley-Page Halifax
AVRO Lancaster
Ex Luftwaffe Ju-52
Hawker Typhoon running top cover patrol.

The real workhorses were the Douglas DC4s but FG has none that I can remember, you could I suppose press the DC6 in it's place and squint.
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Re: berlin airlift

Postby butter330 » Tue May 17, 2022 12:18 pm

Definitely there are more than one aircraft available for this. But most of them where abandoned in early stages of development:
I have for example tried the lancaster and halifax and they both have a depressingly empty cockpit. The Ju 52 is also flyable but not really in a realistic way.

Currently I am working on a cockpit revision of the dc-4/c-54 (there is one actually but not in the default hangar: https://wiki.flightgear.org/Douglas_DC-4). It was also left alone some time ago. The complicated thing is that it is based on the dc-6 and therefore has also some bugs that came from not changing the file paths in some cases. And of course there is a lot missing. This will probably take some time because this is the first aircraft I am working on for fgfs but I hope it will be usable in the end :)
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Re: berlin airlift

Postby Lester-Boffo » Tue May 17, 2022 3:45 pm

Realistic and an open source flightsim....

Honestly that the C47 had major issues in on-line use is not surprising. Perfect becomes the enemy of good once again.

The DC6 from Lake of Constance hangar is fair and it's not going to be a resources game crasher for those with limited video and memory in their desktops.

I've resurrected my old Sunderland for an attempt at takeoffs and landings at Spiegel park lake. I have to say. Ex coastal command pilots who flew in these war worn tubs with 5 tons of salt in their cargo hold had big brass ones. Frànkly anything that can fly reasonably within the parameters, I would think should pass a use test, yeah the basic interior, or tub interior and just basic instrumentation. Lots of FG pilots fly external view when taking images.

I use a 6 channel RC model simulator TX for my flight control, banish me to good enough purgatory. Just saying, I'd like to join this flight.,
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Re: berlin airlift

Postby Lester-Boffo » Tue May 17, 2022 5:27 pm

Oh and the Mig 15 was historically not in service yet, the front line Soviet air fighters in Europe were Lagg-5s. So you could easily use mk IX Spitfires for escort.
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Re: berlin airlift

Postby butter330 » Thu May 19, 2022 10:18 am

Yes you're probably right and most flightgear planes will never be as realistic as e.g. x-plane. I like to play around with lots of systems during flight in which case I think the c47 is a good standard. But that's of course only my opinion. If someone flies with outside view, none of that will probably mater to him.

Even without me fussing around with it I would say the dc-4 is a bit better (or at least equally as well) developed as the dc-6. And because (as far as I know) the dc-6 was not used at that time, I think it would be better to use the dc-4. For people with limited resources, these aircraft would definitely work.

I'm using a rc transmitter as well :lol: and it's working totally fine for me.
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Re: berlin airlift

Postby Ysop » Thu May 19, 2022 11:26 am

As this event is such a classic on, we'll probably repeat it. Also there is plenty of opportunities to extent the historic experience. ATC, radar assisted approach, separation... remember, that is no chance to fly a second approach, as the next planes are coming in right behind.

X-plane and realistic? No. They just have resources. Speaking of flight dynamics their approach is more a starting point than the ultimate solution.
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Re: berlin airlift

Postby Lester-Boffo » Thu May 19, 2022 2:31 pm

Actually it was Lake Havel which was some really wide open lakes parts of the river Havel, Darn. I was landing and taking off from Lake Tegel just west of Tegel airport, yeah that was a bit scant for landing and takeoff space. It's good you found that old file as it saves me the trouble of converting an old FS2004 DC 4 I've been working on for a couple years, It's 3D model suffers from granularities.
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Re: berlin airlift

Postby Lester-Boffo » Thu May 19, 2022 3:29 pm

Yeah, Syd's old DC4 file needs work; lotsa depreciated textures pathways that my copy of AC3D doesn't like. And the Yasim fdm is way out of spec, engines don't idle, funky pitch tensors and no landing gear airdrag. I like the prop reversing, did Pratt & Whitney R2000's have reversing?
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Re: berlin airlift

Postby butter330 » Thu May 19, 2022 4:19 pm

no actually the original dc-4 didn't have prop reverse. But they later fitted the system of the dc-6 to some of them for shorter landing distances
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Re: berlin airlift

Postby Lester-Boffo » Sun May 22, 2022 2:27 am

Working on improving the external model and Yasim fdm for the DC-4, which needs cutting away of the landing gear doors, and making lg wells, the lg legs could use some scissors and retract rams also. The interior, at least the cockpit is pretty good. The fuselage is a bit compressed in the Y axis.
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