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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby FED-EX » Tue May 14, 2019 8:28 am

No, that´s not correct. If Jomo is first on this day, his UID will be EDDFjom and the other can't use it. Or am I wrong? I go mostly at 19:30 o'clock online and the troll is either already there or comes in pretty quickly. As Jomo said, he needs to be online 24 hours a day to prevent the troll from using his UID. This is of course silly. Jomo should just come online and use a different UID. By the text and the behavior I recognize well who is who. And if necessary, Mumble helps to identify. (If the troll tries to be decent).

And as I said, we have to fight this fight and, and as you @LH-1701 rightly said, stop feeding the troll.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby tdammers » Tue May 14, 2019 8:37 am

So, simple solution: pick one or two arbitrary callsigns (e.g. "EDDF" plus 3 random digits) and use those. Publish the callsigns of the day somewhere (here, alwaysdata, emmerich-j.de, or whatever); since those channels cannot be faked as easily, it's now trivial to see who is the real Jomo. And then just ignore the troll and live happily ever after.

The "beauty" of this is that it doesn't require any technical means that don't exist yet.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby LH-1701 » Tue May 14, 2019 9:21 am

@tdammers: This sounds like an interesting idea. I will check if its possible to use a callsign of an already logged-in user.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby LH-1701 » Tue May 14, 2019 6:07 pm

Hi,

i have tested to login twice using same ID.

result: 2nd session can't be established.

So it seems like its not easily possible to take over a UID thats already logged in.

I did not do any deeper tests, just tried it with usual fgfs.

reguards,

tobias
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby jomo » Tue May 14, 2019 6:45 pm

Sessions at EDDF
Well guys - looks like you love EDDF even more than me. So I guess we should try to stay there - hopefully it works with your support.

I did change my home page https://www.emmerich-j.de/. Any comment/suggestions from Your side will be welcome. On top you find the field were I will place the daily changing or same UIDs used that day -- I will change only if that idiot is trying to use the last posted the next day. In addition I added some hints wher to find more info - maybe some of those disturber are able to read.

I hope on you support - if possible not with too much discussing - so that not we become the guys disturbing.
Hope for a wonderful session tomorrow.
thanks for your support
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby FED-EX » Wed May 15, 2019 5:51 am

I will try one approach and then guide new joining mp's via chat dialogue to what is happening and who is the serious ATC, so that jomo can concentrate on his task. I do not know why I'm so attached, but I can not stand the miserable behavior of people who hide behind their anonymity.

And I've written about the topic "Homepage", but you seem to have no interest in it.
A good looking website would be a step to show the inherent professionalism also to the outside world.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby RogerDodger » Wed May 15, 2019 9:01 am

Hello everybody!!

Quick introduction (I got to know a few of you on the chat, but non the less) - quite new to FG, but not new to flying with long being on VATSIM as a pilot and ATC. I found the FG a very nice community and the new models/sceneries/weather really nice, might be the best free ones out there. Good word for the developers, wherever you may be!!

I did a bit of flying around and got to know very professional and nice ATCs and pilots. I wanted to help Lucas on the EHAM event with ATCing the app. and getting to know more of the community, but my gf had other plans for me that day (sorry Lucas for that). :D

The reason I write here, is after I had a little discussion with LH-1701 about EDDF on the chat, I got encouraged to write a message on the forum since honestly, I didn't find flying to EDDF very pleasant.

First of all, about this troll that seems to bother everyone. I wouldn't give it too much attention, or even better not to give it attention at all. The internet brings a lot of trolls, they come and go, especially if they are not given attention (we even have them at a professional stock market forum that requires validation to join, so if they go there, they are everywhere). It's a part of this being a free and open for all source. There also seem to be a few troll pilots around that also getting the chat full of messages (fighters bombing each other, or whatever that was).

So, about why I found it not pleasant to use EDDF. First time I tried to get to EDDF, I planned a flight at the end of the EHAM event from EHAM to EDDF (including sending a flightplan). The event in EHAM was great, real pleasure, and so I was arriving to EDDF to be greeted with very unpleasant messages, this is the full conversation (I even double checked in the videos on his website):
- ME: Good evening, inbound EDDF xx Miles out.
-EDDF: atis info. no runwawy info.
-ME: which runway?
-EDDF: how about answering my question, then I may be able to answer.
-ME: What was the question? I didn't see any question.
-EDDF: Welcome FRA... - are you inbound EDDF?
-ME: I never received that, and the first thing I said was "good evening, inbound EDDF" and stated how many miles out, protocol :)
-EDDF: sorry, you discuss with yourself - not with me - I have better things to do.
after that he just ignored me, asking me not to bother and generally making a very bad atmosphere, ruining my flightplan, as I couldn't land, since I planned to have a fully covered flights. I just closed the session and didn't land thanks to him. In that session he also ignored another pilot that was also in the event at EHAM with the callsign "AF1", which in the video had a remark that he takes off without permission, but I checked the video and it clearly never happened, since he got there with me in the same time ( he spawned at the gate).

since the message is getting long already, I would say that I tried to fly from EDDF twice more, and both time I got a very unpleasant response. Which is why I decided not to fly EDDF anymore (and why LH-1701 saw this chat I guess, since I was talking about it with another ATC). I was not surprised to find out, that there are actually many members (pilots) in FG that avoid EDDF because it's problematic attitude and the general feel.

So, I will stop here since it's already too long. Anyway, welcome to everyone, I am enjoying this community very much and will be an active part of it (as a pilot and atc as well), and thanks to LH-1701 that convinced me to write in the forum with the problems I encountered.

Let me know what you guys think :)
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby tdammers » Wed May 15, 2019 12:57 pm

Let's just say Jomo (the guy who does the EDDF sessions) is special. There are good sides to this, there are bad sides, and sometimes it gets ugly. You're not the only one to never want to attend again, but there are also plenty of people who have never had any problems with Jomo and who happily keep coming back. It's up to you.

Should you decide to try again, the single most effective thing you can do to make things better is to use mumble.

Should you decide not to try again, know that it is now possible to fly FG on VATSIM - things are still a bit immature, and you need to jump through a few hoops like installing a development version of FG, and figuring out Swift, but it does mostly work, and the ATC experience is just miles ahead.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby FED-EX » Wed May 15, 2019 12:59 pm

Every one of us has a bad day from time to time and if I offer professional ATC service, and have to endure the same problems, excuses and idiots for years, you can be annoyed from time to time.

Some ATCs may be better able to handle this, others may not be willing to train pilots. Everyone has to find their own airport where they feel comfortable.

When Jomo sent me once via N16, and nearly screamed >> WRONG !! when I was driving over N16, he later apologized when he saw in the chat dialogue that the instruction came from him just like that. Nobody is perfect.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby LH-1701 » Wed May 15, 2019 5:56 pm

First, Welcome RogerDodger ;)
I will write more tomorrow.

I am currently on route from LEPA to EDDF and will arrive apx at 9 pm.
See u (maybe) at EDDF.

If the troll will be there again i will try to warn other pilots to ignore him.

reguards,

Tobias
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby FED-EX » Thu May 16, 2019 8:45 am

I like Mumble - supported radio. Even if the phrases are not familiar to me. I think I just listen to LH-1701 and write down the most important sentences. I also look at liveatc.com.

Somewhat confused / scared me yesterday was the WST, who listened very quietly, how we want to deal with the troll .... and almost, which difficulties in Jomo's PC occur ... he did not fly, but has helped in the chat later. I do not know.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby jomo » Thu May 16, 2019 8:49 am

Sorry RogerDoger, I do not really understand what Your problem was, let me try to analyses your findings from my point of view:
RogerDodger wrote in Wed May 15, 2019 9:01 am:First of all, about this troll that seems to bother everyone. I wouldn't give it too much attention, or even better not to give it attention at all.

If you really did ATCing yourself and even read our Forum -- then you must have noticed that this "troll" (as you name him) is bothering us since weeks by logging in prior start of the event with the ID of the ATC and just acts as ATC with the stolen identity - so all customers are completely confused about who is who. Do you really mean that problem is solved just by "not give it attention at all"? Really?
RogerDodger wrote in Wed May 15, 2019 9:01 am:... so I was arriving to EDDF to be greeted with very unpleasant messages, this is the full conversation (I even double checked in the videos on his website):

What I do not understand: I guess there is no FlightGear-Pilot that never missed a line of text in MPchat! And to that time (you must have seen in the chat) I was busy typing taxi-instructions and trying to explain AF1 why he was neglected. BTW: In the upper right part of the OR-screen you see the FlightStrips - in the strip of AF1 is stated when and why he was neglected! It was not that day - thus you are right: It was impossible for you to watch it that day!)

So why do you start discussing instead of just answering my then question at
18:44:12 ".. are you inbound?" Because of those problems we suggest urgently to use mumble!
18:55:49 your final comments:
    *"after a great session in EHAM, you totaly ruined the flight"
    *"I am blocking your server! You are really bad and annoying"
Well - that may be right from your side - from my side it could look the reverse - and legally you may run into big problems if you block a public server!
Let me know what you guys think :)

Quite frankly: I think You may have a problem as ATC here if You do not use mumble and are convinced you see every printing-lines when you are busy. Otherwise: Welcome at EDDF - but pls do not ATC during our regular events - see https://www.emmerich-j.de/S1.html
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby RogerDodger » Thu May 16, 2019 9:37 am

So, first of all, thank you everybody for a nice welcome. Also in FG, I got a very nice welcome from pilots and ATCs, and this is why I am here (as you know that VATSIM is less personal and more demanding, and sometimes it's nice to have a laid back flight/session).

Not surprised non the less, by the offensive message from Jomo unfortunately. I came here with a very positive mood and trying to create a positive atmosphere. I guess I knew why I didn't want to write here in the first place.

Let me just answer your "analysis" quickly:
1. mistakes happen, people miss chats, I just fail to understand why there is such a negative atmosphere in your sessions? why the insults to others? I didn't see that in any of the other ATC in FG. Honestly, it could be the reason why "trolls" (that's how they are called, didn't understand what was the problem) are attracting to your sessions (there are also many pilots who seem to bother your sessions when I was there some other times).
2. I did answer your question, again and again, what do you mean by start discussing? I kept a very polite discussion from my side and was greeted by a very upset and strange answers from your side.
3. Those were my final comments after I saw it's impossible to work with you. We did have a great session at EHAM, and you did ruin my flight because I couldn't land. My appologies for saying you are bad and annoying, but you can understand my frustration at the moment.
4. I did block your server and continued without a multiplayer setting on (you might see I disappear from your screen), because that's what I would expect myself to do in case the ATC is non-cooperative, and not to bother an ATC zone (which resulted in some bug with time and weather, and I had to close the flight). I am not sure what legal problems you are talking about, I didn't have any passengers on board that would file for compensation being stuck in mid air :D :D

About mumble - I do use mumble, but not always it's possible (and I guess not only for me, many people use the chat). I do agree that it's best to use mumble, but I had faulty mic. in the last weeks, happens. It has nothing to do with mumble though.

And about the troll, I am sorry that you encounter trolling problems. Trolls are everywhere on the internet (trolls and bots even play a big role in elections today!), you have to live with them and try not to feed them. That's how it works (I see there is a discussion about registration, etc. so I won't get into this matter).
I have to say, I have seen no trolls on any other airport I used on FG, only at EDDF, and only when you are there. Don't you think it might possibly be for a reason?

I am sorry for this message, but I truly honestly wrote here from a positive point of view, and was sorry to see an offensive message back from you.
I will just quote tdammers to conclude: "Let's just say Jomo (the guy who does the EDDF sessions) is special. There are good sides to this, there are bad sides, and sometimes it gets ugly. You're not the only one to never want to attend again".
It shouldn't get ugly, and shouldn't get to the point that people avoid this airspace.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby jomo » Thu May 16, 2019 11:28 am

RogerDodger wrote in Thu May 16, 2019 9:37 am:
Thank you that you confirmed that we do not have any real problem, but all that is just hear-saying that cannot be proven by any of the existing session-films.

So we might end this discussion (at least I will)
thx for your cooperation
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby Lydiot » Thu May 16, 2019 2:47 pm

RogerDodger wrote in Thu May 16, 2019 9:37 am:So, first of all, thank you everybody for a nice welcome. Also in FG, I got a very nice welcome from pilots and ATCs, and this is why I am here (as you know that VATSIM is less personal and more demanding, and sometimes it's nice to have a laid back flight/session).


I hope you stick around.

RogerDodger wrote in Thu May 16, 2019 9:37 am:Not surprised non the less, by the offensive message from Jomo unfortunately. I came here with a very positive mood and trying to create a positive atmosphere. I guess I knew why I didn't want to write here in the first place.

Let me just answer your "analysis" quickly:
1. mistakes happen, people miss chats, I just fail to understand why there is such a negative atmosphere in your sessions? why the insults to others? I didn't see that in any of the other ATC in FG.


Several people have made the exact same point.

RogerDodger wrote in Thu May 16, 2019 9:37 am:Honestly, it could be the reason why "trolls" (that's how they are called, didn't understand what was the problem) are attracting to your sessions (there are also many pilots who seem to bother your sessions when I was there some other times).


That is very likely, and because Jomo won't change that won't change either.

RogerDodger wrote in Thu May 16, 2019 9:37 am:2. I did answer your question, again and again, what do you mean by start discussing? I kept a very polite discussion from my side and was greeted by a very upset and strange answers from your side.
3. Those were my final comments after I saw it's impossible to work with you. We did have a great session at EHAM, and you did ruin my flight because I couldn't land. My appologies for saying you are bad and annoying, but you can understand my frustration at the moment.


Actually, he probably can't understand your frustration, because there have been a bunch of people that went through what you went through before you. It's almost always the same thing. He thinks something happened, he thinks he's right, he thinks he has the right to discuss things, but he thinks nobody else has the right to discuss this, he gets to yell at people, other people don't get to yell at him.

And when this comes up in this thread or another thread he or one of his fans will tell you to come up with evidence to prove you are right. If you then post your evidence which will be clear they will either ignore it or the moderators will delete the posts because even though you were asked by Jomo and his fans to show your proof it somehow becomes off-topic when you reply, not before.

So, this won't change because Jomo won't change.

He will keep discussing when he feels like it (but you're not allowed to).
He will insult others and yell at them when he feels like it (but you're not allowed to).

Some people have a good experience but when other people get upset it's always someone else's problem. Never Jomo's fault.

That's unfortunately how it is with EDDF/Jomo. Just watch.
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