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Boeing 787-8 for FlightGear 2.0.0, working, with Autopilot

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Boeing 787-8 for FlightGear 2.0.0, working, with Autopilot

Postby dany93 » Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:28 pm

Hi,

I've read somewhere in this forum that the Boeing 787-8 is not yet maintained, and the model available from the official FG website is out of date. It's a pity because I think it's one of the best airliners proposed in FlightGear, very complete with a rich clickable control panel and nice graphics. I had downloaded a more recent (sept 2009) model from Mediafire site via a link (not yet available) in this forum, but, since FG 200, the autopilot "failed to load" and "Heading" alone worked. Moreover, it had pitch instabilities.

I'm not a developer and can't "maintain" it, but at least I've made the autopilot work again under FlightGear 2.0.0, even ILS approach mode (NAV1 CDI course and NAV1 Glideslope). I've not tested Flight Director mode.
I think I've also solved pitch instabilities (YASim FDM).

I'm sure I'm not the only one who has done this but for those interested who cannot or do not want to make this kind of surgery, it can be downloaded from http://www.datafilehost.com/download-4bd58772.html . In case it has been deleted, ask me to upload it again.
[EDIT 12 oct 2010 : rather see my post by dany93 on Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:59 am]

Question: If this aircrafts exists and works well with FG 2.0.0 somewhere else in this forum, why not take the best version to replace the old one in Aircrafts FlightGear official site?

I hope it will work as well for you.

Cheers

Dany
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Last edited by dany93 on Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Boeing 787-8 for FlightGear 2.0.0, working, with Autopilot

Postby boeing 787-8 » Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:47 pm

Hello. In this page there a post about the boeing 787 :)
I Don´t know where we will take all of this, but I assure you it will be fun. (Orville Wright, 1903).

Welcome to my blog! http://fgfsliveries.blogspot.com
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Re: Boeing 787-8 for FlightGear 2.0.0, working, with Autopilot

Postby skyop » Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:50 pm

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Re: Boeing 787-8 for FlightGear 2.0.0, working, with Autopilot

Postby dany93 » Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:08 pm

Sorry. I had'nt seen it.
Maybe I give our moderator extra work. Sorry and thank you all.
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Re: Boeing 787-8 for FlightGear 2.0.0, working, with Autopilot

Postby skyop » Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:10 pm

No problem. ;) Happens to all of us.
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Re: Boeing 787-8 for FlightGear 2.0.0, working, with Autopilot

Postby nickyivyca » Sat Oct 09, 2010 1:34 am

On the subject of adding a version that is fully compatible with 2.0, the 8/22 release would bee a good candidate. That release was the last release before I split off the development version, and has achieved an amazing 359 downloads on MediaFire. I may wan to revise it for liveries and such, with a small package arriving with it and then having the new, updated liveries with light textures on the main liveries site. Currently I have to have all of the liveries in the base package because of that being the only source.

http://www.mediafire.com/?ry9b8wi6a33vnf1
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Re: Boeing 787-8 for FlightGear 2.0.0, working, with Autopilot

Postby dany93 » Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:39 pm

Thanks nickyivyca for your response. Glad to see that this very interesting aircraft is still maintained and improved.

I've downloaded your 787092710, it works well with my FG 2.0.0 config.
I've compared it with the one of my link above ( http://www.datafilehost.com/download-4bd58772.html ).

From the FDM point of view, I had made less changes than you. The flight behaviour of both are close enough, and it's a very good point to have got rid of this pitch spazzing.

My autopilot is sometimes smoother than yours, particularly for the ILS approach (NAV1 CDI course and NAV1 Glideslope). It works with your version, if you are interested, you can test it and maybe choose some parts at your preference. Always the compromise between reactivity and smoothness....

Cheers,

Dany
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Re: Boeing 787-8 for FlightGear 2.0.0, working, with Autopilot

Postby Sealbhach » Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:18 pm

dany93 wrote:My autopilot is sometimes smoother than yours, particularly for the ILS approach (NAV1 CDI course and NAV1 Glideslope).


i don't know what's wrong, I've tried both of those 787s recommended above and with both the ILS NAV1 approach doesn't work... the plane pitches from side to side and generally goes into a death spiral. I'm using FG 2.0 from Git on Ubuntu 10.04.

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Re: Boeing 787-8 for FlightGear 2.0.0, working, with Autopilot

Postby dany93 » Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:35 pm

Did you set your NAV1 radio? (that is for KSFO 111.7 MHz) And 283 deg, to visualize your runway alignment.
Be in "APP" visualization (rotating knob). When in near alignment, check your ILS vertical and horizontal tracks and try by connecting autopilot only when they are not too far from the center.
If it's a matter of Git version, sorry, I can't help you. Do Beechcraft B 1900d work the same ILS approach? Not the same autopilot but same procedure.

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Re: Boeing 787-8 for FlightGear 2.0.0, working, with Autopilot

Postby nickyivyca » Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:06 pm

Around then I switched out autopilots with an old one that worked better. It may have happened after that release, but I'll take a look at your AP once I have time, which I don't have very much of right now.
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Re: Boeing 787-8 for FlightGear 2.0.0, working, with Autopilot

Postby Sealbhach » Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:42 am

dany93 wrote:Did you set your NAV1 radio? (that is for KSFO 111.7 MHz) And 283 deg, to visualize your runway alignment.
Be in "APP" visualization (rotating knob). When in near alignment, check your ILS vertical and horizontal tracks and try by connecting autopilot only when they are not too far from the center.
If it's a matter of Git version, sorry, I can't help you. Do Beechcraft B 1900d work the same ILS approach? Not the same autopilot but same procedure.

Dany


Yeah, the radio was set and I could see from the map that I was in the ILS beam, it works fine that way in my copy of the A320. I didn't do this APP visualisation, I was just using the autopilot from the menu - just switched it from GPS to NAV1.

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Re: Boeing 787-8 for FlightGear 2.0.0, working, with Autopilot

Postby nickyivyca » Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:38 am

dany93 wrote:Thanks nickyivyca for your response. Glad to see that this very interesting aircraft is still maintained and improved.

I've downloaded your 787092710, it works well with my FG 2.0.0 config.
I've compared it with the one of my link above ( http://www.datafilehost.com/download-4bd58772.html ).

From the FDM point of view, I had made less changes than you. The flight behaviour of both are close enough, and it's a very good point to have got rid of this pitch spazzing.

My autopilot is sometimes smoother than yours, particularly for the ILS approach (NAV1 CDI course and NAV1 Glideslope). It works with your version, if you are interested, you can test it and maybe choose some parts at your preference. Always the compromise between reactivity and smoothness....

Cheers,

Dany

I see what you did to the autopilot-I may be including some of these values into the release version. The Glideslope controller on the 787 was always kinda weird, with the sudden jumping from one end to the other in the ailerons.

I'm going to polish up the 8/22 version independently from the main development for a Git and main page release.
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Re: Boeing 787-8 for FlightGear 2.0.0, working, with Autopilot

Postby nickyivyca » Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:29 am

All right, I just did a bit of a test...

So the autopilot works well in glideslope mode. But in altitude hold mode, it doesn't seem to be able to make up its mind. This might be because you tuned it to follow elevators that were overpowered.

By the way, I'll have a download page ready 787 ready soon.

Here it is:

http://www.mediafire.com/?m5gy50lcy1udccc

Due to weirdnesses with my computer, if someone could test it out, that would be good. I'll be making a thread in the Liveries section soon with all of the new liveries.
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Re: Boeing 787-8 for FlightGear 2.0.0, working, with Autopilot

Postby dany93 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:59 pm

Hi Nickyivyca,

I've downloaded your 787V2, tested it and propose you some remarks and modifications.

- In "Altitude Hold" mode, your autopilot reacts the right way, just a bit nervous. It regulates well, holds its altitude, decides and reaches its targets (target-climb-rate, vertical-speed-fps, then altitude). It becomes temporarily crazy when you change flaps.
- In NAV1 CDI Course, when seriously disturbed, the heading can go to roll oscillations which don't stop.
- Drag from flaps is way too strong: with full flaps (30 deg), you can't even hold an altitude at full thrust because the speed falls until stall. Moreover, for landing, you have to keep strong thrust almost until touching down, otherwise you fall like a stone. This is a remnant from the old model.

On this version (787V2-01 http://www.datafilehost.com/download-a7aadad6.html ), I've made the following modifications:

- 787.xml: (modifs marked "modif dany 11 oct 2010")
- decreased lift and drag on <wing> <flap0>
- decreased "effectiveness" on hstab. In fact, I've read such high effectiveness is a kind of cheat, maybe a trick to stabilize the aircraft or make iterations convergence possible. I'm not sure to understand. But it works, and that's probably better.
- deleted the negative ballast at the tail. It seemed weird to me, and in fact I see no CG problem. After this, the aircraft is more prone to spontaneously raise its nose before takeoff and it seems to me it's more stable in shift with the autopilot (greater moment of inertia around Y axis?)

- Autopilot:
I've inserted "my" whole version (smoother, which of course is the old one modified). You are right, it's sometimes a bit long to change pitch from climbing to descent. I've slightly increased my Kp gain (from 0.003 to 0.0035, you were at 0.01) in Altitude Hold, stage2. I feel the compromise is between 0.03 and 0.05, but I don't know what to do. To refine... It's stable in normal transient conditions, when you change the altitude on autopilt from higher to lower and vice-versa, but it doesn't like a lower altitude setting when the aircraft is climbing at (manuallly) very high shift angle (due to the difference between target and present vertical speeds). A servo motor may solve this roughness, but I ignore all of this (I just learned to tune an autopilot 2 weeks ago).

With all of that, the aircraft seems correct and pleasant, down to landing (approach 170 kts flaps 30 deg, touchdown 125 - 135 kts). Its max speed is 495 - 500 kts.

Here I am presently. I hope it can help you to choose the best of all that.

Cheers,

Dany

PS: I sometimes have a sudden cutoff (instruments, engines) just after a seemingly good start of the game, I think when the engines are slowing down. I had already seen this with the sept 2009 version, not on yours. I hope that's not something in the autopilot. I'll try to investigate it.
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Re: Boeing 787-8 for FlightGear 2.0.0, working, with Autopilot

Postby nickyivyca » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:30 pm

I don't intend to do much with the FDM for this release, so as long as it flies normally, it's probably fine. As for the autopilot, the only thing different between your AP and the one that I released was that I used elevator trim instead of the main elevators, which makes it easier to disconnect the autopilot and continue an approach.

As for the approach drag problem, that's possible. You may be using a higher weight than me for the approach.

The ballast in the back was more to balance out the elevator action in place-normally a plane doesn't just roll with no elevator input. The approach elevator works better this way.

Any changes are fine pretty much for me-as long as you don't change anything drastically, I'm fine with you managing this release's development while I continue developing the development version with the multiple geometry wing.

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