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Big Black Box

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Re: Big Black Box

Postby AK-Emm » Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:43 am

:D
cj chitwood wrote:Alright... So...


I downloaded from CVS SimGear 1.9.0 and FlightGear Source 1.9.0 and Data 1.9.0. Took a long time, to say the least. I didn't realize when I started Data that I was downloading every available airplane. But no bother, saves me the trouble later on.

I start it up, and there's the box. Ah, but wait, we now can browse the properties.

File, Browse Internal Properties (or hit "/").
Go to sim/rendering/camera-group
Select "near-field" and make it "0" (zero). Hit set, close property browser, black box is gone.


Problem is, if you reset the scenario, you have to do this all over again. I think I recall being able to set properties in the .fgfsrc file, and if so, no prob. Otherwise, this would get annoying for e.g. chopper practice.

[edit]
So, found an easier way.

Whatever options you want in your .fgfsrc file, go for it. Then, add to the end of the file, the following line:

--config=/path/to/your/config.xml

(changing it, of course, to suit the actual path)
Then, create the xml file mentioned above and insert the following:

Code: Select all
<PropertyList>
<sim>
<rendering>
<camera-group>
<near-field>
0
</near-field>
</camera-group>
</rendering>
</sim>
</PropertyList>



in my case, all of my FlightGear data is in

/usr/local/share/FlightGear/data

and I have system.fgfsrc there (which is no different from having it in .fgfsrc except that it's systemwide now no matter what user runs it). So, the last line of my system.fgfsrc file is:

--config=/usr/local/share/FlightGear/data/noblackbox.xml

Works for me. However, I do notice what I think may be a tradeoff: My Cessna's cockpit isn't completely rendered when e.g. I look up and to the left (into the wing root). Oh well. No more often than I look there, I can live with it to get rid of the black box.

[edit 3!]
alternatively, as a line in ~/.fgfsrc or $FG_ROOT/system.fgfsrc, add

--prop:/sim/rendering/camera-group/near-field=0

Much easier. It's funny, I found that and I wasn't even looking for it. There was a blurb about --prop in the multiplayer part of the manual.
[/edit 3!]

To the developers: Should I have changed a different property instead? Maybe used some value a little larger than zero? I'll play with it, but I'll check back here, too...
[/edit]







Question for the developers: What is the purpose of having "two cameras" as I've read it called? Why have one near and one far renderer? I'm curious, not complaining...

thanks,

CJ




[edit 2]
Oh, and check out this screenshot: http://gallery.dennettesdesigns.com/mai ... temId=1708
Turns out, my clouds are still broken, as I expected, but what I didn't expect was the prop arc to blank them out entirely. I'll just keep clouds3d disabled for now... They're nice, but I don't need them (considering Microsoft FS98 was the best I'd used up until now).
[/edit 2]



this is a very helpful solution :D
From a programming perspective can this method be applied to FG 1.9 to correct the black box :?:
Last edited by AK-Emm on Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ladies and Gentlemen, this is your Captain speaking at Flight level 350 it seems we are experiencing engine failure we're Out to fix the problem we'll be back in a moment.................... :?:



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Re: Big Black Box

Postby stuart » Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:07 am

Hi CJ,

I'm very glad you managed to at least partially solve the problem.

The reason for having two cameras is because of the huge range of distances in the scene. You have a cockpit with dials that are mm apart, and at the same time you need to be able to render scenery 50km away. With such a huge range, the floating point precision within graphics system isn't accurate enough, so you either end up with artifacts in the cockpit or in the distant scenery. To solve it, we've rendered the display with two cameras - one for close objects, such as the cockpit, and one for distant objects.

-Stuart
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Re: Big Black Box

Postby AndersG » Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:57 am

AK-Emm wrote:
From a programming perspective can this method be applied to FG 1.9 to correct the black box :?:


No, the code support for this was added after the 1.9.0 release to give a solution to the black box problem. I suspect (well, hope) that there will be a bug fix release soon.

/Anders
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Re: Big Black Box

Postby AK-Emm » Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:14 am

thanks for the solution i look forward to the hotfix
Ladies and Gentlemen, this is your Captain speaking at Flight level 350 it seems we are experiencing engine failure we're Out to fix the problem we'll be back in a moment.................... :?:



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Re: Big Black Box

Postby airforce master » Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:08 pm

i dont get it where is the near field because i can't find it
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Re: Big Black Box

Postby jon377 » Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:48 pm

I'm a bit confused. I use the pre-compiled version of FG 1.9.0. If I want to put in the code to correct the black box problem, can I keep the pre-compiled 1.9? Or do I need to get the CVS or compile it myself?
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Re: Big Black Box

Postby AndersG » Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:53 pm

jon377 wrote:I'm a bit confused. I use the pre-compiled version of FG 1.9.0. If I want to put in the code to correct the black box problem, can I keep the pre-compiled 1.9? Or do I need to get the CVS or compile it myself?


The latter unfortunately - or try on another box - the black box problem only occurs on some systems.

/Anders
Callsign: SE-AG
Aircraft (uhm...): Submarine Scout, Zeppelin NT, ZF Navy free balloon, Nordstern, Hindenburg, Short Empire flying-boat, ZNP-K, North Sea class, MTB T21 class, U.S.S. Monitor, MFI-9B, Type UB I submarine, Gokstad ship, Renault FT.
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Re: Big Black Box

Postby MD-Terp » Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:30 pm

jon377 wrote:I'm a bit confused. I use the pre-compiled version of FG 1.9.0. If I want to put in the code to correct the black box problem, can I keep the pre-compiled 1.9? Or do I need to get the CVS or compile it myself?

My guess is that once these couple of "substantial" bugs are worked out, a new pre-compiled binary will be made available for distribution, either via the forum community or else the "official" channels. And then there's always 2.0. :)
Cheers,
-Rob.

"Retired" from FlightGear involvement as of July 2010.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8809
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Re: Big Black Box

Postby Jester » Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:31 am

cj chitwood wrote:[edit 3!]
alternatively, as a line in ~/.fgfsrc or $FG_ROOT/system.fgfsrc, add

--prop:/sim/rendering/camera-group/near-field=0

Much easier. It's funny, I found that and I wasn't even looking for it. There was a blurb about --prop in the multiplayer part of the manual.
[/edit 3!]
Not to mention that I have written this exact argument to use some posts before yours :mrgreen:
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Re: Big Black Box

Postby jon377 » Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:24 am

MD-Terp wrote:My guess is that once these couple of "substantial" bugs are worked out, a new pre-compiled binary will be made available for distribution, either via the forum community or else the "official" channels. And then there's always 2.0. :)

AndersG wrote:The latter unfortunately - or try on another box - the black box problem only occurs on some systems.


Blast..well I guess I'll wait for the next version :? ..in the meantime I'll just mess around & try stuff.
Thanks for the info though.
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Re: Big Black Box

Postby cj chitwood » Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:10 am

Jester wrote:
cj chitwood wrote:[edit 3!]
alternatively, as a line in ~/.fgfsrc or $FG_ROOT/system.fgfsrc, add

--prop:/sim/rendering/camera-group/near-field=0

Much easier. It's funny, I found that and I wasn't even looking for it. There was a blurb about --prop in the multiplayer part of the manual.
[/edit 3!]
Not to mention that I have written this exact argument to use some posts before yours :mrgreen:

Hah :oops: my bad! I may well have read it, too, then forgotten it -- that's how my mind works sometimes, and I certainly don't want to take someone else's credit! ;)

:lol: I gotta tell ya... I've been going all over reading up on FG trying to get this to work or that to work.. I had been happy with old 0.9 for a while, but there are always quirks or bugs or glitches in every program, or if not, then feature improvements in future versions, that make me want to upgrade.

For me, this time, it was a little of both, but mostly it was a desire just to do it. It's been a long time since I've had this much time I could freely blow on the computer (* vice doing more useful things like finding a better college than UNF that actually OFFERS the classes needed for the degree programs it CLAIMS to have). I knew that in the past, any time I wanted to get a newer version of certain programs (and FG was among them) I always had to rig something into place to do it because using Stable Debian doesn't offer the fluidity of updates other distros offer (the main reason I stick with Debian is indeed that stability for which it's come to be known). FlightGear is one such program where the latest version I could find in precompiled form was already a year old (give or take, I don't really remember).

So, in compiling it, I found, wait, I need SimGear 1.9.0 too. Okay, get that... Oh, wait, now I need a newer Plib. Oh, and some lib called "boost", oh and this, and that... and during each phase, any time I ran into a problem, I kept reading up, reading up, reading up. In the course of post-install quirk-workouts, I must have come to FG.org about 3 dozen times before finding the forums, which seem oddly enough not indexed by Google (you'd think I'd have gotten a hit or three from it, but I never did). It wasn't until I emailed Curt that I was directed to the very obvious link on the main page (which I figure I never saw because "forum" isn't on a line by itself, so I clumped all three in with either IRC or Mailing Lists, two things I generally dislike).

Once I found the forum, I must have read this thread about 5 or 6 times before posting to it, and there's no telling how many times I've read the output of "fgfs --help --verbose", which also mentions exactly the tricks listed above.


I just feel like the manager that's been running all over the mall an hour before opening on Black Friday and just got home after a 16 hour shift and FINALLY can sit back and relax!

It helps with that feeling -- the release of endorphines, I guess -- that I pulled a mid-tower case out of the neighbor's trash :oops: a couple weeks back (don't worry, I cleaned it real good) and have finally cut enough holes in it today with last year's Christmas present Dremel to mount my server's mainboard and power supply in it. It's an older Gateway 450 tower, meant for a Pentium III that had a slightly less capable form factor, and I've spent all morning and all evening modding it in between Dremel battery charges to make my mainboard fit. I didn't pull it out because I'm cheap; I'm not, really... I just like the challenge of *MAKING* it work. :twisted: And, when even a basic case is around US$100, could you blame me anyway? It's a nice looking generic-enough case... A great replacement for the CompUSA one I WAS using that I couldn't close up all the way and block sound because there were certain parts that weren't mounted right and couldn't be (like a hard drive cooling mount-rack that when properly installed would break the system RAM). Even this one isn't perfect, but it's far better and QUIETER.

Well, I've blathered on enough tonight... I'll sit back in the bleachers and watch from there for a while!


Cheers!
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Re: Big Black Box

Postby cj chitwood » Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:12 am

Jester wrote:
toshi wrote:Although I don't have compile enviroments on my machine, I'm interested in some modifications to cvs codes which were posted by timoore about 18 hours ago.

Here is a log from git mirror.
http://mapserver.flightgear.org/git/git ... d398024ed8

Yes, running latest CVS you could try --prop:/sim/rendering/camera-group/near-field=0.0 or --prop:/sim/rendering/camera-group/znear=0.0



LOL!!! Sure enough!!! And funny thing, I remember seeing that now!
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Re: Big Black Box

Postby airforce master » Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:27 am

i can get it to work
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Re: Big Black Box

Postby timoore » Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:40 am

Could people with the "big black box" problem update to current CVS and see if they still have it without turning off the far camera via the near-field property setting?

Thanks,
Tim
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Re: Big Black Box

Postby fredb » Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:42 pm

timoore wrote:Could people with the "big black box" problem update to current CVS and see if they still have it without turning off the far camera via the near-field property setting?

A fresh Win32 build has been made available at the usual place. Please report success or failure.
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